Finding Peace in Long-Term Recovery: From Trauma to Transformation with Michelle Risser

In this powerful episode of Confident Sober Women, I sit down with Michelle Risser, LISW-S, a therapist, coach, and consultant with 24 years of sobriety. Michelle shares her journey from early recovery to becoming a certified EMDR therapist, while navigating life's challenges including trauma, a car accident, and breast cancer. Learn practical strategies for emotional regulation, nervous system healing, and building a thriving life in long-term recovery.

Episode Highlights:

• Michelle's journey to sobriety at age 26 and breaking the family cycle of addiction
• Transforming trauma into purpose: Becoming an EMDR therapist after a life-changing car accident
• Practical tools for managing emotions and regulating the nervous system in recovery
• The power of routine and self-trust in maintaining long-term sobriety
• Innovative approaches to changing negative thought patterns, including "ridiculously over-the-top self-talk"
• Navigating life's challenges while maintaining professional responsibilities and sobriety
• The importance of body awareness and somatic healing in recovery

Key Takeaways:

1. Recovery is a layered approach combining different healing modalities
2. The importance of addressing trauma for sustainable recovery
3. Practical strategies for managing emotions without substances
4. How to build self-trust through consistent daily routines
5. The role of humor and perspective in emotional regulation

Resources Mentioned:

• EMDR Therapy
• Meditation practices for recovery
• Somatic healing techniques
• Nervous system regulation strategies

Guest Bio:

Michelle Risser, LCSW-S, is a therapist, coach, and consultant with 24 years of sobriety. She specializes in helping professionals increase their impact while decreasing burnout. As a certified EMDR therapist and consultant, she brings both personal and professional expertise to trauma healing and recovery work.

Connect with Michelle:

• Website: www.mrisser.com
• Instagram: @michelle_risser

Recovery Tools Discussed:

• Body scan techniques
• Breathwork practices
• Meditation
• Ice pack for nervous system regulation
• Positive self-talk strategies
• Worst-case scenario exercises
• Laughter as a healing tool

Transcript

Well, hey there, Michelle. Thank you so much for joining me today for the Confident Sober Women podcast. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you. And, um, like I mentioned, I have this weird cold and, um, it's attacked my voice box. So I sound a little different than usual, maybe it's, maybe it's fun for some people.

I don't know. Um, anyway, so I'm going to turn the mic over to you, let you share a little bit more about your story and then we're going to chat.  

Okay. Hi everybody. My name is Michelle Brisser. Um, I'm a therapist in central Ohio. I am a mom. I'm, um, I've been sober for, 24 years I'm a recovering alcoholic. So my, on my father's side, there is a long history of alcoholism.

And my father was an alcoholic and he also had several mental illnesses. He had schizoaffective bipolar disorder, which is, you know, really scary when you're a kid and he was untreated.  And so I always was told by lots of different people in my life, you need to be careful with alcohol.  I was told this by family members, even my teacher, when I was in high school, I went on a school trip to Germany and she's like, you need to be careful with alcohol.

Cause we were allowed to drink on that trip. When I started drinking, I started drinking a little bit in high school, you know, but it, I went to Germany in high school on a school trip. And even there, my teacher was saying like, Michelle, I think you need to be careful with alcohol. I don't think alcohol is your friend.

So I always had that kind of in the back of my mind.  And I even kind of thought to myself, I'm going to basically get away with this as long as I can, you know,  very alcoholic way of thinking. 

And my 20s. So I, I tried to go to college at the University of Kentucky. I ended up, um, you know, doing an academic withdrawal.

I basically flunked out more or less, you know, came home went to the community college. I really, really wanted an education.  And here I am, I'm trying to go to school and I can't do it.  I  came back. I went to the community college off and on. Finally, I got into Ohio State. And once again, like, I really felt committed to getting a degree,  but yeah, if I had an 8 o'clock, 9 o'clock, 10 o'clock class, forget it.

I wasn't going. I waited tables. We would close at 11. We'd go out to the bars. We would stay up till, you know, drinking till 4 or 5 in the morning. And I somehow thought that I could get up at 7.  I thought that I could go to bed at five and get up at seven and make it to class because that's what people did.

That's what, you know, my, my coworkers, um, we did stuff like that. We would party all night and go to work on no sleep.  So I guess I thought it would work. It didn't work. I ended up getting, I don't know, a D or something in one of my classes. And I, I just said, I am sick of this. I'm sick of myself. I'm sick of not being able to reach my goals.

You know, I still have that voice in the back of my head that was like, Be careful. You have alcoholism in your family  and I was starting to have weird things happen like a big turning point for me was I was in the shower and all of a sudden I saw all these sparkly white stars. It was almost like an explosion. 

And later someone told me that was probably something to do with blood pressure,  you know, dropping rapidly or something, you know, but. Right.  I had been trying to stop drinking at that point,  and I would always make it three days on the third day I'd be on a bar stool, no matter how committed, no matter how much I, I wanted to stop, I would be on that bar stool after three days.

At the age of 26, I did get into a 12 step program and I got sober. Um,  it took, let's see, I made it nine days the first time  and  ended up drinking.  And after that, nine days, and after that, I don't even want to call it a relapse, because I wasn't even really sober yet. I was still trying to get sober. 

But,  It just didn't work anymore. Like I never got any relief.  I just was sitting there drinking by myself feeling miserable. So I said, okay, so from that point on, I have not had a drink or any kind of mood altering substances. Um,  I was very, very involved in AA through the first couple of decades of my sobriety, you know, less so now I still go about once a week or so. 

That's, that's mostly my story. Um,  working through with the childhood that I had with the father that I had.  

That's nice. Thank you so much for sharing and for your honesty and vulnerability. I think most of us can relate to a lot of what you shared. Maybe not exactly, you know, not all of us have parents with active alcoholism or major mental health disorders, but a lot of us do.

And, um, but mostly what's always important, I think when we are We're, we're sharing our stories of any kind, whether it's around recovery, mental health, or maybe it's a professional situation or just parenting or whatever, you know, relatability is the biggest key to all of this. And whether you can't, whether it's exact or not, you know, most of us can relate to the feelings that other people are sharing around that topic.

And that's one of the things that I love about kind of this work and just recovery communities in general is that, yeah, a lot of us are not. The same, like every once in a while, you'll, if you go to meetings long enough, you hang out,  you'll eventually, you know, hear your story or whatever. But, you know, oftentimes not so much, but you can relate to, you know, the desperation and the obsession and compulsion  and the desire to be seen and heard or validated, you know, all these kinds of things and the things that we really didn't get when you're growing up in a way like you described. 

So, you know, thank you for sharing that. So it sounds like you got sober and AI, which is the same thing I did. I'm a little bit, um,  behind you, I think. Um, but you know, that's really all we had back then. So, um, most of us use, you know, rehab and AI for 12 step programs to get sober, get and stay sober, and now, you know, this has morphed into,  you know, a lot of amazing things in modern day recovery.

We have quitlet and podcasts and zoom meetings and, you know, non 12 step recovery platforms and, you know, and so many cool things. And I love that about kind of what's happening in the evolution of our society. Um, you know, and with that comes all kinds of other things like.  You know, interpretation around what's best or what's not great and language and what do we call ourselves and why we don't like that.

And, you know, and to me, all of that is kind of just, um,  uh, noise, you know, it creates a lot of  distraction from the real matter at hand, which is, you know, we are people who cannot consume substances like other people.  I would argue, and from the research done by lots of people now that both of us probably know, no one should consume substances, um, because it's their poison for everybody.

However, you know, we are part of a group of people who can't do that, um, and function.  So  my main mission in life probably similar to yours is to normalize, not drinking and to bring hope to others about how to thrive in long term recovery,  which is what you've been doing. Right? So, so after you got sober, you were pretty young.

Like me, I would turn 27 and rehab, and then I was already married. And so I was repairing that. And then I had three kids in four years and I went on about my life and my career and such.  Can you share a little bit more about what those first, maybe, maybe the first decade or so, and even beyond has been like for you and that transformation, because, you know, that early sobriety stuff is.

It's really challenging for a variety of reasons. You know, sometimes people have, you know, legal stuff to deal with. Sometimes people have, all of us have, you know, mental health stuff to deal with and thought patterns and, you know, things like that, that we have to repair and really need to learn how to live.

You know, I always used to say I needed to learn how to, I needed to relearn how to live, but I've changed that now to think. I needed to learn how to live because I didn't, there's no relearning. I didn't really know. I didn't know how to take care of myself properly. I didn't know how to  do proper skincare or feed myself three times a day or not exercise for three hours a day.

You know, I just have conversations, you know, outside of my mouth with my husband or people important to me. So  maybe share a little bit about what that was like for you. And you know, I would imagine that, um,  I don't throw these words around lightly. I know you're a therapist as well, but words like trauma and, um, You know Abuse and things like this.

Um, we don't use lightly but they are often very much a part of our stories Most particularly when you're being raised in a family where addiction is present and also for sure, severe mental health. So kind of curious about that and with that, to the point that you're willing to share what that kind of looked like for you as you kind of emerged into recovery in the first decade or so.

Yeah. So you're right. I had to learn how to kind of function, you know, my mom and I left my father when I was about. 11 years old and you know, I'm an only child  and you know, she absolutely did the best she could. She worked two jobs. She worked really hard, but I spent a lot of time half, you know, kind of figuring, raising myself on ramen noodles and the Brady Bunch reruns.

Like a lot of us Gen Xers did, honestly, you know, we're the latchkey kids. And,  um, there were a lot of things like, I just didn't know. I didn't know anything about finances or, um, even like bills. You know, when I was.  um, still drinking.  I wouldn't even think about paying a bill until I got the shut off notice. 

Like I just saw it as like, Oh, I got time. You know, once I got the shut off, I was like, okay, cool. Now I need to pay it. Like that was just my norm. I didn't care about things like credit or. So that's been part of my journey is like repairing my credit, learning how to deal with money and finances.  Um,  Getting.

bang. My own help for my mental health. Um, and really, yes, I had a ton of trauma as a child, but I didn't really get help  until 2013 when my family and I were in a bad car accident and we were hit by a drunk driver.  In the middle of the afternoon, on a Friday.  Yeah, it was a horrific accident. We rolled, we landed upside down, my four year old daughter was in the car, um, and, you know, what's interesting is of all the people in the car, I'm the only one that developed PTSD, and we know now that's probably because I had a prior trauma history, prior PTSD.

Trauma history is a huge risk factor for future PTSD. So yeah, I had full on PTSD with flashbacks and nightmares and intrusive thoughts and sounds and you know, the whole deal. And I went and got EMDR and it just was life changing, you know, and I went and became an EMDR therapist myself. I'm now a certified EMDR therapist as well as a consultant. 

So, um, yeah, that was a big turning point, that car accident. I remember  I felt like I was looking at a fork in the road. So 2013 I would have, I got sober in 99. So I would have been  14 years sober. And I just remember looking down this,  this crossroads or, and thinking, okay, I'm going to go one of two ways.

I'm going to either heal  and continue on with my life, or I am going to go down  the tubes. Basically, I'm going to just go, I'm going to start drinking again. I'm going to, You know, bury myself in doughnuts and sugar and like depression at like, I, I, that was a real option at that point.  So  what's funny is I used to run, I don't run anymore.

Um, but I used to run half marathons and when we were hit by that drunk driver, it was the day of a half marathon. We had run, my husband and I had run a half marathon, came home, got a shower, went to lunch and we got hit on the way back.  So yeah, I don't recommend a half marathon and a car accident in the same day. 

But  when I was looking at that fork in the road, we had signed up for a five, uh, 10 K and we used to run a lot of races together as a family.  And our car accident was in May. The 10 K was in June. I ran that thing. I, so I decided, okay, I'm going to live. I'm going to fight.  I ran that thing. I cried the entire time.

I found out afterwards that I ran it with four broken ribs after I had a CT scan. So like that was a wild, that was a turning point in my life.  

Wow. 

Yeah.  

Wow.  

That's incredible. 

I was a, I was a long distance runner for many years, my husband and I both. So I've run several marathons and several half marathons.

So I totally get the impact of, um, you know, the implications of what it means to, you know, work hard to train for that. And like you kind of are obsessed with it for a while and then, wow, to have that experience and then go through with it.  That says a lot about, you know, kind of who you are as a person, like your general makeup and character as a person.

Like, you're just like kind of a stick to it, to it, this person, like, we're just going to persevere. Um, which is not always a great thing. No, right. 

You know, that's been really one of my things that I've been working on in my own mental health journey is like, when do you stop like running a half marathon with four broken ribs might not be a great thing.

Like, I didn't give myself permission to say, it's okay to take care of yourself. I always had to do more, be more perform, you know? So the only way I knew to, to move forward was to go out and run.  You know, that was the 10 K that I ran with the four broken ribs. But, um,  Yeah, and then the, my next big, huge turning point was in 2020 when I was diagnosed with an aggressive form of breast cancer and I had to go through chemo, surgery and radiation during COVID while working as a therapist  and being a mom.

Yeah.  

Wow. Yeah, that's huge. And I mean, this is life, right? Um, I mean, this is the stuff of life. I mean, we're all kind of humaning out here, um, without any kind of guide book, except for maybe a few things, but, you know, and we don't have any clue. What's going to come our way at any time. And so, um, that's why having  tools in our toolbox and having, you know, kind of a long term relationship with ways to regulate our nervous system, ways to regulate and manage our emotions, ways to stay sober and normalize not drinking.

Why, why that's so important, you know, because we just never know at any given turn. And, and that's how I live my life today. I mean, I just, It's kind of, that's the only way I have inner peace for me is to just know, like, I really have zero idea. I mean, I make my plans, I, I have my routines, my predictable little life and I do the things, but I generally know always in the back of my mind that I just don't know what's going to go on today or any day.

And so I think having that kind of perspective is helpful in a way like it, and it doesn't go to an extreme for me. Like I don't sit around and like not do stuff. Like I don't live in fear. Um, and just not do things, but I also do have a very healthy, I think, understanding of  the nature of life and that we just, and the nature of literally that we just really don't have much control over anything.

Um, I can control, like, what I put in and all my body. And a little bit about my  thoughts sort of, um, and then what I say maybe, but  a lot of the other stuff,  it's really not in our control. And you mentioned EMDR. I'm also an EMDR therapist. My audience knows that. They know I love, love, love EMDR therapy so much.

It's so powerful. It is the closest thing we have to a miracle for healing our brains at the molecular level. And it does give us the opportunity. To rewrite these stories right to clear out those neural pathways that were created by trauma that was not processed by our brains properly and then rewrite them with much more positive beliefs and leave them in the front part of our brain so that we can function much better right and so we can relieve ourselves of those ptsd symptoms and then not be  I'm also now trained in, uh, neurofeedback therapy.

So I don't know if you're familiar with that, but it's another neurological modality that literally uses, um, electrodes on your brain to train your brainwaves and, um, really change your brain as well, using, um, positive feedback from the electrodes. And it's pretty, pretty amazing. So I'm super excited to introduce that to my community and world because it's an at home program.

So you can do it yourself. Thanks You know, you're, you're guided by a practitioner, but  you can, you know, do it anytime you want, whenever you want. And it's pretty awesome. So anyway, that's amazing. 

Yeah. Thanks. So super excited about it, but I like to mention it and like highlight it a little bit more because that is one way that you and I both, and many people we know and we've worked with have decided to  work on their trauma. 

Which by the way, we all have this. I always like to say that to some people, especially people in our age, sometimes we'll be like, well, I don't have any trauma, nothing really bad. You know, we all have it. It's just that it comes in different forms in different levels. Um, we've worked with people to help them do that to, to begin to heal their brains at that molecular level and really get that, um,  change in their brain chemistry that talk therapy just can't quite provide.

So I love that for you. And I'm wondering if, um, You know,  you know, once we do that work, you know, because I think of, uh, recovery, maybe you do as like a layered approach, right? You know, like sometimes we use 12 step. Sometimes we, then we add in like therapy and then we add in nutrition and wellness and complimentary modalities and Reiki and whatever else.

And so it's a layered approach, but as we start to do that, you know, um, at some point, You know, well, you know, at some point, hopefully in that emotional sobriety journey, when we stay sober for a longer time, we begin to  latch on and understand how to manage our emotions and, and then not just the management of the emotions, meaning in the moment, like knowing what it is.

Why is it? And like, how do we change it or remove it? But also then in our physical body, that experience of the emotion, which you were alluding to, um, in our nervous system, in our physical being, cause we know from research too, that our bodies hold trauma differently than our brains do. So like,  what, what is your experience maybe personally?

And then also, you know, in your work, maybe we can work in some examples, like how do we do this? So like, how do we manage our, Our nervous systems and our emotions. And this way.  

Yeah. So one of the best. Tools that I have really is a meditation practice. And when I am doing it regularly, it's like night and day difference.

Um,  and I, I don't do it perfect. perfectly by any means. In fact, I really need to get back to doing it consistently. But that allows me to even be able to tune into my body. Yeah, so many times it's almost like a cliche with trauma therapists. Where do you feel it in your body? So many people don't even know, you know, what do you mean in my body, you know, um, so you have to be able to really Flex that muscle of being able to tune into your body.

And one of the best tools that I have say that I'm upset about something. Um, I'm angry. Something's bothering me. I can say, okay, stop, do a scan. Where is it in my body?  You know, maybe it's tightness in my chest. Maybe it's hot on the back of my neck. And then I can address that at the body level. So I will literally put an ice pack on the back of my neck.

I will, you know, do some slow breathing and try to, you know, You know, help my chest, relax, try to help my, um, and you know, my breathing slow down. And then that can kick on your  parasympathetic nervous system and help you kind of regulate. And so I will literally turn to my body  to try to regulate when I'm out of sorts. 

You can't think your way out of it. That's my experience. You're, you're upset. Something's bothering you. You're not going to figure it out. You've got to get yourself regulated first because you're a prefrontal isn't even online. It's  The thinking part of your brain is out to lunch. You're in lizard mode and  

I love how we have like the same language.

Um,  excuse me. I was, I always say that like your frontal lobe is offline. Um, and I use that, you know, regularly in my own  Home, right where I'm just like,  I kind of feel like you just, you just like went off and what happens when that for the rest of the audience is when you're a prefrontal cortex is where your logical brain or cognitive center is when you go off line, because that back part, your hippocampus and reptilian part is activated and fight or flight.

When that's taking over, you can no longer use your frontal lobe at the level that you are used to. So that fight or flight starts to take over. And that's why we have like things like anxiety, right? So we get anxiety and then even into panic. That's how we start to develop into that panic mode because that frontal cortex where we can think and reason has sort of shifted off.

And you're now in like, Complete fight or flight where you're really starting to catastrophize and, and use your words to create a story that may or may not be true. Most likely it's not true. It's not rational, but it's, it's a, it's based out of a feeling. And so now you're just doing even more work to.

Get rid of that cognitive ability. And so you're right. And you can,  I mean, it's very, very, very hard to use any kind of thinking modality in that way. Right. So you're so right, Michelle, like when we need to, when that's happening, especially if you do struggle with anxiety, that's usually the first response, right?

You're suddenly your body is telling you maybe you're sick to your stomach or your chest is tight and, and you're, and you're nervous. Or you're like, I need to escape. I got to get out of here. Right. Um, those are your signals, right? And so that's your body saying, Oh, wow. You know, we are heading down  the wrong path.

And so  you're so right. Like whatever we can add in to begin to like, bring our attention, our focus back now. And this can be very formal. Like you're saying, like, put the ice pack on. It can be literally, you know, step into a meditation. You could put one on that's specific to your body. There's a lot of somatic material available.

Um, it can be breathwork and also can be like super simple.  Really focus fast and kind of private like breath work is so great because you can do that Anywhere you are and no one really knows you're doing it  You can do like a sort of a peaceful place visualization You know like where you take yourself to your kind of peaceful place and you walk yourself through all your senses What do you see feel taste in here here?

And then kind of begin to calm your mind and body down as you're breathing through that. I mean, so these things are available to us.  Um, what I, I hope that, you know, we, a lot of us can learn to, and you can tell me what your experience is with this too. Like we can learn to use our thinking brain. And, and this is kind of how I teach around eliminating negative thinking patterns is, you know, really begin to a, you have to begin to know You have to go through the whole process.

Like what is the, you have to inventory yourself and understand what your thinking patterns are, where they start, why they start, how they show up for you. But then you can slip into like that gentle shift away from whatever that negative thought is. Right? So if you're constantly, if you're, something happens and now you're like, Oh my God, there I go again.

I'm such a failure. I can't do anything right. I always forget stuff. You  know, you can catch yourself when you do. Training like this to learn. Wait a second. Um, no, I'm not going to do that right now. We're going to stop that right now. And we're going to gently shift into,  Hey, um, even though I made that mistake, I did about a hundred things really well today, or even though I forgot.

Um, the lunchbox, um, I know how to take care of myself or whatever it is. Uh, is this making sense?  

Absolutely. One of the things I like to do is I call it ridiculously over the top self talk. I do this myself. I share it with my clients.  So let's say that you are saying to yourself, Oh, I'm a failure. I can't do anything right. 

You know, a lot of times the advice will be to be kind of neutral and be like, I'm doing the best I can, you know, I'm  as worthy as anyone else. And to me, that doesn't work. It's too flat. I need to go like completely over the top. So I will, and I I'll go until it's funny. So like, for example,  um, for me, a lot of times it comes up around time.

Like I don't have enough time. I'm not doing enough, that kind of stuff. So let's say I'm out running errands. And I'm like, I'm a failure. I'm not doing everything. I'll say stop. And then I'll be like, Michelle, you just absolutely crushed that trip to the grocery store. Like you are killing it as a mom.

You're probably the best mom I've ever seen.  Like you are, I mean, there is no better. You are top notch. No one has ever grocery shopped as well as you have. No one has ever gone through car line as spectacularly as you have. And I'll just keep going until it makes me laugh.  

That's really funny. 

And I'll do that with my therapy clients too.

And I'll be like, no, keep going more and more and more until it makes them laugh. Yeah. And it's not, it's not toxic positivity. Some people are like, well, aren't you just pretending? No, we are interrupting that negative cognition and we're doing it in a way that it makes us laugh. So it breaks that old pattern in our brains. 

You know, so I'm a fan of ridiculously over the top self taught. 

I love that. It's actually the complete opposite of what I teach. Cause I definitely teach not to do like, I'm not to not do that, but I never thought of it that way. I'm always like, you don't have to be crazy. Cause you know, for a lot of people who do struggle with like self esteem or you're really stuck in those kinds of ways, it's hard to like, it's hard to even shift out of the negative to get anything positive.

So then to, so I feel like you have to go to this extreme can feel really, you know, Kind of defeating like there's no way I can do that. It doesn't feel palatable to them. You don't have 

to, it's just fun. I think it's just fun. No, but I 

like it because I think it speaks to this body piece, right? Because then, you know, when you, so it's a really great nervous system regulation strategy, because if you can get yourself all the way down to ridiculousness and you're laughing, Laughter is reducing the stress on your nervous system, like laughing and smiling is, is bringing your nervous system back down in that moment.

So it's almost the same as kind of physical activity, right? Like if you were to get up and, you know, go up and down the steps or jog around your house or something. So I do like 

it. Yeah. It reminds me too, of another similar exercise, even though it's kind of the opposite would be to like go to the worst case scenario.

Yeah. Yeah.  Somebody says, Oh, I'm a failure because I was late picking up my kid. Okay. So, you know, what's that mean? And then you kind of push for, well, they're going, you know, um, my child's going to be taken away and then I'm going to be destitute. And then I'm, um, I'm going to lose my job. And then, you know, you just take it to the extreme where you're like living in a van by the river with Chris, with Chris Farley, like,  you know, it's same idea, like take it to just the absolute extremes.

And that helps you see the ridiculous of it, ness of it and say, okay, maybe I'm somewhere in the middle. Maybe I'm not the greatest mom that ever lived. Maybe I'm not in a van by the river. Maybe I'm just a human, like doing the best I can. 

Yeah, I really like that a lot. And I think, and I'm not exactly, but I feel like I've seen this happen in work with clients where, you know, you can, not that, I mean, I've kind of allowed, and like, this is actually a strategy in EMDR, right?

Like we can get when we're doing like the fear and phobia protocol, but like, I've done some of that work with people where I just keep asking them a question or I keep, you know, and then they will automatically kind of themselves get to that place where like,  Yeah. I mean, I probably can just like go by the car.

Like it's probably going to be fine. Like, I don't actually do know I've done this before. Like they can almost get there themselves, which is pretty cool. Like then you're like, wow. Like you just help them kind of see it for themselves, which is, which is wild. Um, and I, I think this is so important because after you stay sober for a little while, you know, you are, I mean, in the beginning of the pink cloud and all the  I mean, it's not fun always, but like the, the fellowship, whatever it is around you, like people are tend to be.

A lot of times people are kind of doting on you. It's like this whole new lifestyle. You feel good. You're starting to look good. Maybe you lose weight. Your skin is glowing. There's all these kinds of like  other benefits to not drinking and using. And that continues, right? Cause now your relationships are getting better.

And, um,  you know, your health is getting better. You maybe you've gotten a new job or you've gotten out of a bad relationship. But,  you know, with time  we settle in, right? Like we kind of settle into the light. This is my new life and yes, it's, it's awesome and stuff. And then we do start to get kind of,  um, kind of hit with some of the realities of, of life, like we were describing before I was going to, what I was going to ask is if, if maybe you  would be willing to like, let's just get real gritty here, like if there's like a personal story at a level that you're willing to share, where you can kind of feel like, okay, like this actually, you know, here I'm floating along, I'm doing all these things.

And then, and then like this thing happens  and you almost don't feel like it's even possible. Like, I don't know about you, but like, and after you stay sober for kind of a while.  For me anyway, like I, you know, my, my life in a kind of, I've done a lot of EMDR. I've done a lot of really great recovery work. I work with in recovery every day.

Um, I have these kids and then, but then like a thing will come up, you know, like, like for me, it's always around the kids, generally speaking, not much else bothers me. But almost always around something with my children. And so that will happen. And it's like so unexpected. Cause I'm like, I don't, I'm not used to this.

Like I'm not used to these kinds of feelings ever coming. I'm not used to feeling like I want to numb out. I don't want to drink or use, but I do want to escape this. Like I do not like this at all. I want to get out. Um,  and like, so it kind of feels like I'm almost new, like. Um, so I'm just curious, like if we, you know, if you, if there's something like for that for you, you know, when that's happened and it's like, wow, it's like surprising, right? 

Well, I, okay, disclaimer, I think this is going to sound messed up. I think some people listening are going to be like, wow, this lady's messed up.  Or maybe some people, maybe some people will relate to it, but I'm usually, Not surprised. I feel like maybe I am kind of a fatalist. I'm like, of course we got in a car accident.

Of course I got cancer. I always knew I got, was going to get cancer. I always knew I was going to be an alcoholic. Um, 

I'm not saying that about the experiences because I'm not surprised by any of the experiences. Yeah. I'm not experienced. 

I'm like, of course, 

no, I'm not, I don't say, I don't, I'm not saying like, of course, but I'm always like, I'm always like, well, sure.

Yeah. Like, well, why not? That's my thing. Why wouldn't that happen? But I'm saying we get, I get, and I have been in the past surprised by the feeling, the overwhelm of the feelings that come from those experiences. That's what I think. It's like surprising. Like the thing isn't surprising, but you're like, Oh shit.

Like,  wow. Like I don't even remember how to do this. Like I, so it's a foreign.  

Yeah. Um, and that's where the tuning back in with the body. Yeah, comes in for me because really there's only a couple things that I usually feel.  Um,  it's either anxiety  or it's sadness. Or it's anger and like, they feel different in my body and old stuff versus new stuff feels different in my body.

So that's the first thing I do is, is tune in and say, what am I physically feeling in my body? Yeah.  And you know, it makes it easier because when you tune in with it, it dissipates so much faster than when you try to run away with it. So I just try to lean in and let myself feel the thing. 

Yeah.  That's awesome.

I know. I agree with that. And sometimes that's super painful, you know, and it might mean you're like, you're a couple of days, you're just kind of crying it out or you're just allowing it. And it's actually really freeing on the other side. Um, but it is really painful and just like kind of ugly in the middle of it, where you're just like, I need to just be mad about this for a little while.

Yeah. And you know, what's tough too, is like, I know we both are business owners or professionals. Like you don't have most of us. I don't have time. To just curl up and cry for a month, like back in May, my grandmother passed away and my grandmother and I were extremely close. Um, I was an only grandchild.

So not only am I an only child, my dad's an only child was he passed away a couple of years ago. She passed away in May. I was her. caregiver. I was taking care of her from Ohio to Florida. I eventually moved her up here to Ohio to be closer. I was her power of attorney. I was her decision maker. Um, It was incredibly stressful.

Yeah.  And she passed away in May and it's like, but life doesn't stop,  you know, maybe it can stop for a day or two while you take care of yourself, but guess what? You still have to pay bills. You still have to  

go to 

work. And, um,  that's one of the hardest parts for me is how do you reconcile  when something really big is happening and you still have to go through the mundane daily routine. 

Yeah, I totally agree with that. And that's one of the weirdest 

things. It is the weirdest thing 

about that's one of the weirdest things. And I hear a lot of people share that about like, particularly around loss, but I think it can be with anything that we're going through. But I think what you just said is so important.

I want to highlight to one of the reasons why it's That's so important  and, and it's a huge part of my work and, and, and my court, like it's the whole second module of my, of my program, right? With clients is to, is to have the mundane routines of, of the, of daily routines that you never deviate from, right?

That, you know, you wake up at the same time every day, you do this. These five things in the morning and you go about your day and at night you do these five things and like every day you know you do those things and then in between there might be a few other things that you typically do because it becomes so predictable and you you've now trained your brain a that you're trustworthy right that you can follow you say you're going to do a thing and then you do it right so over time your brain begins to learn oh shelby says Means what she says, I can trust her.

So then that means whenever you enter in a new thing, you're like, Oh, I'm going to add this new thing to my routine. It doesn't go immediately.  No, you're not. You're not going to do that. I mean, it says, yeah, she's going to do that. But when the things happen, right? When we're in the mess, when we're in the muck, that messy, sticky middle, I always say that we, our brain already is already.

Already programmed when you do that work consistently over time that it knows exactly how to kind of fall in line. So that predictability brings you and your nervous system, your body, a sense of peace for a period of time, right? And like you can go to bed and you can know that when you wake up, you will do this.

You know, and in some areas of time, or maybe on vacation, or you're traveling to help your grandma or whatever, you don't do every single thing. You do most of it, you know, you do parts of it. And so, even in the mess,  there's, there's like this piece, because you've created You've created  stability in your body and in your mind that says these are the things that I always do.

I know that this sucks. I'm going to go to bed and I'm going to get up and I'm going to do these things. It's like, it gives you something to latch on to.  

Yes. In fact, my internship was at a private practice and there was kind of a high profile. Thing that happened that involved the death of a child.  Um,  so without getting into any more detail about that, one of the things that I learned is for children, when there's a traumatic event or a loss, one of the best things that you can do for children is  get them up, get them dressed, send them to school.

Yeah. 

Keep them on the routine as much as possible. 

Exactly.  

You know, and same for us, like, yeah, we have to let some things go to take care of ourselves or be there for our families, but, but yeah, if we let the whole routine go, which I've certainly done at points in my life,  that's when it's, I've really got a big hole to crawl out of later.

I agree with you. 

I agree with you and it doesn't mean that we don't honor and respect our ourselves or our need for rest or that we do need time off. Sometimes it doesn't mean anything. I was just thinking specifically about like, I don't know about you, but I've had clients in my practice before where they they're going through a thing, you know, and sometimes it's.

You know, physical, sometimes mental health, sometimes both or whatever. And they're just, whatever they're having, they're having a time. And then they want to, they kind of apply for like a short term disability, right. So the, from their work, right. Cause they need, they think they need time off. Well, you know, mostly they need to be paid, right.

And they don't have enough leave and totally get it. I'm not, I'm not against it or disparaging any of it, but sometimes I've had the experience where I've really been working with somebody. I'm like, You know, I know and I it's hard to it's hard to express these things in this way  But I think it's so valuable to what we're saying is I know this is a really hard time for you And we go through the things and what have you done and what's happening and okay, great you're taking care of that and like And I'm, and I'll say things like, I think you need to get back to work. 

You know, like I really think, you know, like another month, two weeks, three weeks, 60 days of like not working is really not going to provide you with any kind of help at all. And also now. You have no money. So like you're poor. If you're, if you're already struggling finances, you don't have any, you're, you're broke and like you need to get back to work.

If you have any depression, nothing feeds depression, like laying around on the couch. 

Right. And so like, it doesn't feel better. We think that's the solution, but it's not. So what I always say is, is get yourself back to, and the past, sometimes I have had to say like, I think you should get back to work. No time like the present and then everything else that's around you that is creating stress or causing problems needs to go, right?

Like, so if you have a thing in your life, that's like a child or a parent, or, you know, some other outside situation that's happening, or your home is a mat, whatever that stuff has to be put to the side, you know, because then you can work that in eventually, but you've got to get yourself on a regular routine.

Although I will say sometimes  Addressing those things is the best thing. Like one of the things I do for myself, I call it restoring order. So when I feel overwhelmed,  I will go through my calendar. I'll make sure everything is on my calendar. We were just talking about like messy schedules, how it's been messy lately with the zooms and everything. 

And, um, so I'll make sure my calendar is in order. Everything's on my calendar. I'll make sure all my bills are paid. My piles of paper are gone through. Um,  I just go through and restore order to my life. Yeah.  And I feel better.  No, I think so too because when our outside environments, our outside environments are clean and restored, then it helps with our insides.

It's really tough to,  Get one or the other if one of them is off whack. So it's not, that wasn't to be all end all for everybody's situation. I was just saying that a lot of times if I feel like the person is capable, but they are wavering or they're feeling like they just need to be all, you know, I'm kind of like, 

I feel like it might be the best thing.

So, 

you know, it's, it's that it's discerning, right. It's what do you need most right now? Right. It's like, do you need a nap or a 12 step meeting? Right. Do you need to meditate or clean your kitchen? There are no wrong answers. It's just what you need in that moment. 

I love that so much. It's like the next thing.

Right. Just check. I totally agree with that. What do you need right now? What can you do right now? 

Yeah. I 

always say to people, how can I help you right now? And a lot of times they'll be like, you can't, there's nothing you can do. Okay. That's cool too. But at least you've asked, you know, that might help them trigger into like, you know, Oh, okay.

I need to, um, get my house in order, you know, 

I need to get my calendar. It might be, well, you know, I think I need a whole new career. Like it could be enormous or it could be, I think I need a glass of water. 

I might be thirsty.  Let's, let's take the easier, softer way here. Okay. Have you had a snack? 

A glass of water first.

How much protein have you had today?  Um, oh man, Michelle, this is so great. I was like, I had five more questions I could ask you and I know we're running out of time. I want to make sure you give people a chance to hear a little bit more about exactly what you are kind of up to lately for work and then how people can get ahold of you if they want to.

Absolutely. Well, I have two businesses. One is a therapy practice and I offer EMDR intensive. And those are three to six hour sessions of accelerated EMDR. And, um, I'm in Ohio. So that is one way that I love to work. And that's actually the only way that I'm accepting new clients right now is for intensives. 

And then I also have my second business, which is my consulting business where I help other therapists Um, and I think it's really important for people to be able to, you know, diversify their income streams and become continuing education providers so that they can really use their expertise to develop another income stream.

One of the ways that I manage my own stress level is I've quickly found I can't do a caseload of like 30 one on one clients and be.  I know I am just fried. I'm not a good therapist at that point.  No. So what I have done is I keep a very small caseload and I also have a second business where I do teaching and consulting and I love it.

It's been a good balance for me. 

I love that. I feel this exact same way. 16 to 20 clients is basically my max for sure right now. And I've been kind of living on the edge of that higher end lately and I can feel it. I can feel like the time stress, like just getting my notes done, like the, the overload on my system.

So for sure we need to figure out what is. What is the best thing for us? You know, and there's no wrong answer, you know, everybody's tolerance level is different. And then our outside lives are different. I still have one kid at home. I have two in college that I'd love to visit. I have a husband. So like everybody's different, but, um, you got to know what's right for you. 

I found that for me, I can be a really good therapist for about three people. 

Yeah. 

And that is not, you cannot make a living on three people a day. So I've got to have other income stream. Yeah. 

Amen. I 

get it. And that's actually how we met was in that world of other income streams and you know, all the fun things we're doing, like you're doing your neurofeedback, which is amazing.

Yeah. 

Um, so people can find me the easiest way is just find me on my consulting page cause it's just mrisser. com. 

Okay. 

I'm also on Instagram. So please follow me on Instagram. And I share mental health content and just funny stuff and encouraging stuff. And, um, so please follow me over there. And that's Michelle underscore Risser on Instagram.