How to Say No Without Guilt: Your Holiday Boundaries Survival Guide

In episode of the Confident Sober Women podcast, host Shelby welcomes Julie, to discuss navigating boundaries and saying "no" during the holiday season. 

Julie shares her journey from a social drinker to finding herself in isolated drinking patterns after having children and moving to the suburbs, ultimately leading to her decision to quit alcohol.

The conversation delves into the evolution from early sobriety to emotional sobriety, highlighting how recovery transforms relationships and personal growth. Julie and Shelby discuss the importance of developing a strong "A-Team" of supportive relationships and how priorities shift with age and sobriety, emphasizing quality connections over quantity.

Key takeaways include:

• The challenge of saying "no" stems from fear of disappointing others
• Practical strategies for setting boundaries, including the DEAR MAN technique (Describe, Express, Assert, Reinforce, Mindful, Negotiate)
• How to start small with boundary-setting and build confidence
• Ways to compromise while maintaining personal limits
• The importance of allowing others to have their feelings about your boundaries
• Tips for holiday-specific situations like family gatherings and work parties

The hosts emphasize that boundary-setting is a skill that requires practice, starting with small decisions like dinner choices before tackling bigger challenges like holiday commitments. They share practical examples of how to communicate boundaries effectively, including using "yes, and" statements instead of "but" to create win-win situations.

Julie explains how validating others' feelings while maintaining personal boundaries can lead to better outcomes, and both hosts discuss the value of taking time to reflect before responding to requests. They share personal examples from parenting and professional situations, demonstrating how these principles apply across different life areas.

Connect with Julie through Instagram, Facebook, or her website Julie Derashynski Coaching, or email her at Julie@JWDcoaching.com.

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Transcript

00:00
Hey there everybody. Thank you so much for joining me today for the Confident Sober Women podcast. And I am so excited to share some time today with Julie and really chatting about some really important stuff for this holiday season that I think most of us, especially ladies can relate to. And we're just gonna see how it goes. Hopefully it's helpful. So Julie, I'm gonna turn the mic over to you and let you share a little bit more about your story and then we're gonna chat.

00:27
Sounds great thanks Shelby it's great to be here. My story so i've been alcohol free since twenty eighteen so i'm coming up on seven years and like so many other women my drinking really ramped up once i had children and moved out to the burbs you know i always. Alcohol is always a part of my life but it was it was fun it was shiny it was work trips and dinner parties and branches and things like that but.

00:55
You know, once I really sort of settled down and, you know, my husband and I, and we have two small kids, I found my pattern becoming more isolated, right? We're home every night. Kids go to bed. What else is there to do? Mommy wanted culture, all the things. So I fell into, I easily fell into a pattern of, you know, the whole, I deserve this mentality. And eventually,

01:22
I'm wildly oversimplifying here, but I really just started to get sick of it and sick of myself and sick of the Groundhog Day effect and just feeling like 80% all the time or 65% of myself all the time. So I quit. I walked away from it. In terms of how I did that, I, you know, like a lot of

01:47
A lot of listeners out there and a lot of other guests on your podcast, Shelby, I really leaned into this wonderful online community that's out there that until just a few years ago wasn't really there, at least like it is now. Other women telling their stories, other women that sounded like me or didn't, just a broad, diverse perspective of other people's relationships with alcohol. All the quit lit.

02:14
Um, I had a coach that I worked with, so I really had this as, you know, we've heard before in the community, this patchwork recovery process in place that I sort of cobbled together and just worked really, really well for me, um, in the, the days, weeks, months, and really years, um, after saying goodbye to alcohol.

02:38
sharing that part of your story. It's so, like you mentioned, this is how it works, right? I mean, this is the critical.

02:48
from anything is to find a community and connection that works for you, that you can relate to.

02:57
that supports you in your journey to make the changes you wanna make. And that sounds like that's what you found. I did the same thing and I do believe that is how it works. Obviously there's a whole bunch of other stuff that goes on. And you've been sober for kind of a while now, congratulations on seven years, I think you said. So once we stay sober, once we get in stay sober kind of beyond that first year, we really start to step into,

03:27
of our recovery journey. You know, that early sobriety stuff is super hard. You know, it's sticky, it's messy. There's just a lot of emotional upheaval. Sometimes there's, you know, other challenges, legal trouble, all kinds of stuff. But then after we start to hang out for a while, it really becomes much more of that emotional sobriety piece. I don't know if you would agree with that. And then just kind of learning how to like live this life as a human being who doesn't use substances to numb out, you know?

03:57
I find that to be the harder journey. Absolutely, absolutely. And to echo something that you said on one of your earlier podcast episodes around, I think it was either you or maybe it was your guest around surrounding yourself with your A-Team, you know, being sober, you know, early on and to this very day, like really got me to evaluate and reevaluate sort of who I spend my time with and what I spend my time doing. And...

04:26
Um, I think when you take stock of that and you have clarity, um, around that, it really just, it just lifts us up, right. And there's a ripple effect to that. Um, so I think it's, it's, it's really important to kind of know who those people are, um, that, that nourish you, right. And don't deplete you, if that makes sense. Absolutely. And that's tricky too, I feel like. And also.

04:54
like so many other things. I mean, I'm an older woman now, like in my later 40s. And so we age and stage too, you know? Like the things that I liked and enjoyed and wanted and needed in my...

05:05
in my later twenties and through my thirties are not the same. You know, my kids were young. I had three little ones in very short time. So I was doing all of that mommy stuff for years, decades, really. And, you know, as for me, that has started to kind of wane into another phase. The things that I find that I need and the people and the kinds of support and things that I need are different now.

05:27
Um, I don't know if you can relate to that and absolutely about how that plays into like what you're feeling now about, you know, how does that work? You know, like, how do we reconcile ourselves with this new us, this new changing version of ourselves to like with friendships, maybe with work balance.

05:47
partners, finances, all of that. Yeah. I think that simple phrase or adage, quality over quantity, like really rings true for me here, right? Like that, you know, having a small tribe or small group of deep intimate relationships over sort of casting the wide net of acquaintances. And this is a common theme. I think...

06:14
I think, and I've heard throughout this community of sort of surface, small talk, sort of superficial chit chat, kind of goes out the window. We all learn that one thing about ourselves, which is we were never really good, never really that good at that or that interested in it. And whether drinking made it easier, you know, I think to eat, every one of us will have to answer those questions. But I think nine times out of 10, most of us.

06:41
At this stage, I'm also in my late 40s. I have a little bit of a been there done that mentality. Like, I'm happier with the quiet and the stillness. I'm happier with less, if that makes sense. And that's not to say we don't all need to be continuing to do the work and remember why we're here. But I think part of that comes with age, and part of that comes with really taking the inventory and.

07:11
getting to know ourselves as we change and as we go through different life stages because it is different. It is, I agree with you about the age thing. I mean, for me, I'm like, I feel like I'm less.

07:23
And I guess I never really appreciated any of that because when you're younger

07:30
age really or.

07:31
I don't know, I was just doing the thing. And then, you know, kids and stuff really take up so much of your time and just trying to get through the day. And also in my early sobriety time, throughout my active addiction, and then definitely the first probably many years of my early sobriety, I did have a lot of contentment. I had some peace and serenity more than I had ever had up to that point before, but I still did not feel comfortable with my own self. Like I didn't, I couldn't be quiet.

08:01
I haven't actually practiced, I didn't start doing this till probably after I was like 10 years over, practice like riding in my car with the radio off. Basically like make myself.

08:14
have times where there wasn't background noise or something going on. And that took, for me anyway, and maybe it's the ADHD or it's just the recovery piece or whatever, I didn't feel comfortable with myself. I didn't really like myself, I think, for years. And so I had a lot of learning to do around that piece and getting just really comfortable in my own company. And I find that that's for me what age and the work on emotional sobriety has done and learning how to discern.

08:44
What are my priorities? And I think that's maybe that's kind of like what we're trying to say is like, what are our early. And to me, it also comes down to like a values question, you know, like when you really dig in, which who in their twenties and thirties really is doing a lot of values work, if you haven't, I would encourage you to. It's a big part of like the work I do, but when you start to really start to identify what your core values are and then, and then be making every decision through the lens of those core values, then it helps you to say, Oh, I want to do this, uh, I want to do this.

09:14
I want to buy this. I want to see this place. You know, all the things. Yeah. That's me. Yeah. And all the things unapologetically, too, right? Like connecting with your values and using those values as sort of a beacon, right, for walking through life in a state of calm or flow or not, right? And realizing that dissonance. Like, it's powerful work. And I think I agree. I encourage you.

09:42
everybody to spend some time doing values work because it's so it's so insightful. It is and I think it's so important to this very concept around especially this time of year with the holidays. It's a lot of pressure no matter who you are or where you are in life. Generally speaking you're going to be asked to do things. You're going to be you know there's things around time. There's around finances. There's um

10:06
energy all that and so this actually came up when I was with some women last week and one of the women was really expressing like how it's just very hard for her to say no to things like and I just

10:17
For me personally, it's not that hard for me anymore. I really, I feel like I've, not that I've got it down, but I feel pretty comfortable and confident about this anymore, but I've really worked hard on it. But we really pressed strong. Like, what about this is so hard? And so I guess I'm curious to hear from you. What do you find is so hard about that? Why do we struggle with, we get the invitation, or we feel the pressure to buy a gift for somebody, or to go to lunch with someone, or whatever the thing, whatever the ask is.

10:47
volunteer at this thing. Why do we have trouble with it? Yeah, yeah. I'm so glad you asked that. And you're right. I mean, everybody has trouble with this. And it is definitely something with all the women I work with that comes up all the time. And, and I'm I haven't been immune to this either. I think it comes down to if I if I were to sort of

11:12
Boil it down to what the main reason I've heard and that I have felt in my own life too is that none of us want other people to think badly of us. None of us want to let other people down. And I'm air quoting here, let other people down, because we're making a whole lot of assumptions about the other people and the question being asked and their attachment to the answer.

11:43
There's this quote it's not it's not an original thought but I love it and I always lean back to it that every time you say yes to something. Just so that you don't disappoint someone else you're disappointing yourself.

11:59
And it's so true when you think about that. If you challenge somebody, and challenge yourself and say, well, do you really wanna do this? Or do you really have to say yes to this? And if the answer is yes, getting curious with yourself on why? And so this biggest, this obstacle, or objection handling often comes down to, okay, we don't wanna disappoint anybody else. We don't want them to think poorly of us.

12:30
Is it possible that they will admire the self agency and want some of it? Or is it possible they will be impressed with our boundaries? Is it possible that there'll be a ripple effect? We don't know. The only thing we go to in our mind is they're going to be upset with me.

12:56
And so I often work with clients on different tools and strategies for practicing saying no. And it doesn't have to be for something big, right? We don't wanna start out with, no, we're not coming to Christmas Eve, brother. We might wanna start out with something a little bit smaller. No, I don't want pizza tonight for dinner, right? Like it is a mental muscle and it's hard, right? But we have to work at it. Like we work at every other muscle.

13:26
and our mind and body.

13:30
I'm so glad that you used the muscle reference because I think that practice part is something that we do not hear enough about and we certainly don't give ourselves a lot of grace for. I know again, sort of my younger years earlier coming up and still this is a work in progress always, but I'm way better.

13:46
I had a really hard time speaking up for myself. Like I really just, I had a lot of conversations in my head, even with my husband or people in my life, but I really just couldn't put that, those words out to like speak up for what I want. Even as simple as like, where do you want to go to dinner? You know, things like that. I couldn't do it. And so because of that, I was basically like a doormat for most of my life. And I'm not saying that my life was like terrible or anything. I'm just saying like, that's just how I, that's how I lived. And you know, as I grew up,

14:16
in sobriety, I did start to become a little bit bolder. I gained confidence. I built the muscles of strength to be able to like value myself enough, which is what you were saying, right? When we make these decisions, we are valuing ourself enough to do the things that we want to or don't want to do. So then I learned how to be able to say like, oh, actually I would rather have pizza than tacos tonight.

14:46
You know, and it is very simple and it sounds silly when you do that. But, you know, most of the time when someone's asking us something like that, a lot of maybe not most, a lot of the times we do care. We have an opinion, you know, but we say we don't care or totally. I don't care. It's fine. Whatever you want. You know, now there are times for me and maybe for YouTube where I'm just like, I actually really don't have an opinion about this. Like, so really, you do like, cool, cool. I'm good with either one. But a lot of times we do. And so in those small moments,

15:16
I definitely agree with you. If you could practice, just take the risk, the perceived risk anyway, of saying what you actually want or don't want. And especially with people that really care about you, generally speaking, they're not going to harm you. You're not going to die. No. Yeah. So that's a great way to practice that and just start to get comfortable with speaking up, with using your voice in that way. Yeah.

15:44
And I still love what you said about like.

15:46
You know, we could be modeling this, you know, we could be modeling it for our children, but even for our partners or other adults in our life, we could be, when you create boundaries, which is really what this is all about, that's the fancier word, right? For letting know or saying no. Yeah. We create boundaries. We're telling people how we want to be treated. We're teaching other people how to treat us. And so that is modeling. That's modeling for our community, for our workplace, for all of it. So every time we do something like that and somebody sees it,

16:15
even if their feelings are hurt, eventually, maybe, maybe not. A lot of the times, somewhere along the line, they might be like, dang, she really gets it. Like, she did that thing. She knew what she wanted. Absolutely. And I do a fair amount of work with the Enneagram. And I myself am a considerate helper.

16:37
With twos and nines, and so for anybody unfamiliar with the enneagram, it's, think about we all have different sort of personality types, and if you're the type of person that thinks from a group, thinks about life from through the lens of the group and harmony, and is this what everybody else wants, right? It's particularly hard, right? Because even something as simple as take out, like I care more about...

17:06
harmony for this evening. If that means you getting what you want, I'm okay with that. I will fit into it. And both things can be true, right? You can live to be in service to others and please others and we're all a work in progress. And you can speak up for the type of food you wanna eat this evening, right? But it's tricky. It is tricky, but this is the stuff of life, right? Like anything else, when we start practicing with the small things, but it really doesn't matter what we have for dinner.

17:35
really doesn't matter, you know, what you're wearing or what, you know, what time you leave, or when those things then as the bigger, more challenging things come in, you'll have something to refer to, right? You'll have those files to pull out of your mind and be like, Oh, I know how to do this. I've done this before. I've seen this before.

17:55
One of the questions that I love to ask with all of these things is when you're faced with different things, and I remember this first started showing up for me a lot when my kids were young and my kids were all involved in sports and they were just very active in a lot of things. And...

18:10
But I remember thinking like every time like a camp would come up or we were being asked to like do something or whatever. I always said, you know, what am I doing this for? What am I doing this? Am I doing this because my kid really wants to do this? Am I doing it because I want my neighbors to see me or I want this coach to like us or, you know, there's a lot of reasons like that. And so that really helped me. So even in this kind of holiday season, you know, if you're invited to something or you feel pressured

18:40
do a thing or buy a thing, you know, you can ask yourself like, what am I doing this for? Yeah. You know, sometimes we do have to take one for the team, you know, sometimes the grandma in the nursing home, because that's just what you need to do. Yeah. Probably really wants to do it, but you do it because that's like, in your view, is the right thing to do. And but then there's other things that may be like your husband's company party, where you're like, I actually don't really like going to that. But you do kind of

19:11
want to support your partner and he's asking you to go. Like, so you go, but maybe you say, hey, you know what? Like, I'm fine with going, but I'm gonna tap out, like after like an hour. Or would you mind if we left at nine o'clock? You know, there's ways to create boundaries within the situation to make you feel more comfortable, whether it's about drinking or just not, or not. And so that kind of everybody wins, you know? That's a really, really good point. And one of...

19:37
One of my strategies is exactly that, which is you can respond with, yes, and. Yes, I'd like to go to your holiday party. And I'd like to come to agreement on the maximum amount of time we're going to stay there, right? That can be really, really powerful. So using and instead of a but can be really powerful too.

20:06
Um, so it's one that one switch of the word can sort of change the whole experience of a conversation. I agree with that. And I love it because these are the simple ways to say like both things can be true. I mean, some things aren't compromisable, you know,

20:23
get really hard.

20:27
No, I'm not spending the money on that thing. Like there's sometimes there's just not a compromise. You can't meet halfway. And so those are the harder ones, right? Where you're like somebody is maybe gonna be disappointed in this, somebody might be sad.

20:42
Um, somebody's feelings might be hurt and, and with all of those things, there should be grace for yourself, but also extended to the other person too. Like they are allowed to have those feelings. So for example, if you have to, if you and your family is just an example, decide like, you know, this year we are going to stay home on Christmas morning and we've decided that we're just going to do that. We're going to have our time or whatever, and we're not going to rush over to the in-laws or whatever in the morning.

21:12
one o'clock. And so presenting that to the person in laws will feel a little challenging. Because already you're going to be like, she's going to be disappointed. If you know them to be combative, what if she comes at me? There's a lot of consequences. And so you have to think all that through and decide, is this worth it or not? And then decide, yes, it is, because this is what we want.

21:42
They're allowed, they are allowed to be angry. They're allowed to be sad. You're not allowed to like hurt someone, you know, put your hands on somebody. You're not allowed to be violent. You're not allowed, and you really shouldn't call someone names or be rude, but people are allowed to be upset. You know, I get caught up in that. I see that a lot with my clients. Absolutely. And I think, I think also too, stopping ourselves and asking, you know, what is the outcome of this conversation I'm hoping to achieve?

22:11
And that's different than what does success look like. But the outcome is, I want to be clear on what I'm signing up for. And ideally, the person's not furious at me, but I also can't control that. But the outcome really is, I'm clear. They understand. The rest of it is a hope. There is a tool I use with clients. It's actually a dialectical behavior therapy technique that's really.

22:38
can use it for anything to help people communicate effectively and also regulate their emotions around said communication. And you've probably heard of it, Shelby. The Dear Man exercise, which is so Dear Man, it can be used both for saying, for asking for what you want, which we've talked about can be hard, and saying no to something. And Dear Man, D-E-A-R-M-A-N.

23:04
Any of your listeners can look it up. It's an acronym and each letter stands for, so if you think about it as a template, the D is for describing the situation, right? I wanna stay home on Christmas morning this year. The E is for expressing your feelings. It's really important for us to start these new traditions where us and the kids are all at home and you know.

23:30
We only have our littles for a certain period of time. I feel really strongly that I want it to be quiet and intimate and at our house. A is for asserting yourself. So you're saying it with authority, not aggressiveness, but assertiveness and authority. R is reinforcing your position. Again, it's really important that we see you and it's really important that we spend some time alone at our house on Christmas morning. M, being mindful of the other person.

23:59
giving them space to process and respond. And N, I forgot the A in there, I think. But the N, negotiate. So where are you willing to negotiate as the asker or the person saying no? And knowing that before you go into this conversation, how about noontime?

24:21
That feels like it will give us enough time to have our alone time in the morning and lots of time to mingle before we have the meal, which is mid-afternoon. When you can kind of lay it out in that way where it's coming from a place of, it's coming from more of a heart-centered place, but you're being assertive and you're having agency, it's surprising how well the conversation can go.

24:49
I really like that. Thank you so much for sharing.

24:55
that's really helpful and clear and does provide like kind of a very nice roadmap for from beginning to end while and giving space for everybody's feelings. You know, I do think we get a lot of us just myself. I can speak for myself and I've seen it a lot. We do just get caught up in like, but she's going to be mad.

25:15
She's gonna be, and I did that as a young person. I thought, oh my gosh, if I speak up to my husband, I say this, he's gonna be mad. And I remember my therapist saying, so what? He's allowed to be mad. And I thought, ooh. I know. But I mean, we are allowed to have those things. And yes, it's uncomfortable and it's a weird feeling and it's a little bit awkward, but it's okay.

25:41
I think the more that we practice some of these things in our, in our regular life, when the bigger things come up, it'll start to become much easier, almost like root. Like it'll be our, it'll be our natural way eventually. Absolutely. It's the same for all things, all areas, even work, you know, with friendships, you know, with your bosses, like, you know, hey, we really need some extra hands this weekend on this project. We can, you know, can we count on you? And you're like, you know, actually.

26:07
I don't work on the weekends. Obviously this is very kind of job specific and you would have to know your situation. Some of us do have to do things outside the box sometimes to kind of earn our keep, but if there's a consistent thing where somebody is asking you to stay late or always calling you after hours, you're allowed to sort of say, no, I don't take calls after six o'clock and just like really establish that boundary. But if you don't do it, anything, people will continue to do what they're doing.

26:37
and then we get upset, we wanna complain about it, but we've allowed it. Absolutely. And I think that's really where like the tail of this exercise comes in around being mindful of the other person and negotiating. Like being mindful of the other person can be something as simple as I know you really need me to work in the evenings. I know that we're overworked. I know that we're overlaid, over scheduled. I get that, I'm sensitive to it.

27:05
I'd like to find a way to solve for that more long term. Me coming in at night feels like putting a bandaid over it. So how about we spend some time together going through our processes, X, Y, Z. The negotiation doesn't have to be, well, I'll come in three nights a week instead of four nights a week, because nobody's happy with that. It's getting a conversation going, not a cause effect, offense, defense interaction. I love that.

27:35
all things. I think that it's an important and powerful conversation.

27:43
It's hard to think of those things when you're being pressed, as someone's coming at you, even if it's not aggressive. But it's hard to think that way very critically. It's hard to critically think out a plan. You can take the moment to refrain, reflect, and then respond either in that moment or say, hey, I just need a little time to think about this. I'm really interested in figuring out how we can all win here.

28:09
You do become the negotiator, but maybe you don't have a solution right this second, but you know there probably is one. But it's okay to say, hey, let me think about it for a hot minute or let me go talk to my husband or let me chat with the kids. And then I'm going to circle back and we're going to finish this conversation. Absolutely. And that you just hit the nail on the head that just by doing that is acknowledging.

28:32
that this thing that you're being asked for is important to the other person. You're validating that. You're not saying yes or no at that point, but they may not realize it, but that's half the battle for them. Right? I, you know, I'll say this last thing and then we're going to wrap it up. But I remember when the kids were little and they're trying to get out of the house, you probably do, you know, I had three kids were trying to get to the preschool and all the things and my oldest one was always very chatty and she's always talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. And you know, we're like trying to

28:58
We were very routinized. Everything was extremely scheduled to like, we had a talk, you know, we followed it every single morning. And she's always like talking at me. And I, and I remember saying to her, like, I would look at her and say, Hey, you know, like what you're, what you have to say is like so important to me. I really want to hear what you have to say, but can we talk about that in the car? Cause we got it. We have to get in the car. That was my work around. And I think about that a lot and kind of use it as an easy example when I'm working with people, because it sounds silly, but I've acknowledged her. I looked at her. I let her know she's important.

29:26
and I'm not gonna forget about it. I'm gonna be like, hey, what were you trying to say to me? So I am gonna circle back, but we also are gonna get in the car so we're not late. It's like you're in my 10 year old son's room with me every night at bedtime when he's 10 minutes past when he should be asleep and he's asking me the big life questions. And I'm just like, I love you asking me this. Let's carve out some time tomorrow after school when we've got all the time in the world to talk about this. You know what I mean, or you're busy, you're doing a podcast or you're-

29:55
you know, like, I really want to be able to give you my full attention because you're what you have to say is so important, but I'm like right in the middle of this thing. I'll be down in 15 minutes. I think we, I think people just forget that that is an option. Like we're allowed to like reframe that whole situation and instead they get upset about the interruption, but I think the upset in this is really like a feeling of like, I don't know how to solve this or I don't know what to do. I want to serve my child or my, or my boss or whoever. And I don't know how. And so they get.

30:25
frustrated and then that frustration comes out as like, get away or you're interrupting or an explosion instead of an actual negotiation, which I think we can all really, really learn how to do that if we slow down, take a pause, and really try. Absolutely. Thank you so much for your time, Julie. I know this was a quick conversation, but I can see us coming back together in the year, but I wanted to give everybody a little bit of a quick shot on how to say no and let go. It's holiday season.

30:55
So how do you like people to get ahold of you if they want to? Yeah, sure. So people can get ahold of me. They can find me on Instagram or Facebook or my website, Julie Derashynski Coaching. I know that's a doozy, but Google's good at finding me. Or they can always drop me an email at Julie at JWDcoaching.com. Awesome, I'll make sure I link to those in the show notes below. So thanks again for your time, and I hope you have a fantastic holiday season. Thanks so much, Shelby. Happy holidays.