Confident Sober Women
Join Shelby John, sober since July 1, 2002, for empowering conversations on the Confident Sober Women podcast with women who've found joy and confidence in their alcohol and drug-free lives.
This show is a rally cry for empathetic, resilient, and wisdom-seeking women dedicated to building a life you don't want to escape from after that crucial first year of a sober lifestyle.
Discover how to:
· Build unshakable confidence in your sober life
· Break free from societal drinking norms
· Overcome the shame cycle and emotional numbing
· Resist the glamorized, over-hyped social influences around alcohol
· Create a pure and joyful life beyond recovery
Hear inspiring stories and practical advice on:
· Healing trauma
· Mindful parenting in recovery
· Optimizing physical and mental health
· Building a new, empowered identity
· Transforming your life beyond substance abuse recovery
We dive deep into questions like "Who am I now?" and "How do I pursue my heart's desires?", taking the intimidation out of sobriety and showcasing how to thrive in long-term recovery. This is truly a space for women supporting women in this modern recovery era.
New episodes every Tuesday. Subscribe now for weekly inspiration on your journey to becoming one of the happiest sober women, free from the cool crowd's pressure to drink.
Please leave a review if you love the show, it helps us on the mission to make the Confident Sober Women community a household name.
Confident Sober Women
The Secret Life of a Sober Professional: Journey to Authenticity
What happens when we finally stop hiding and embrace our authentic selves? For Margie Schaller, living with secret sobriety for 18.5 years came at a significant personal cost—until one transformative moment changed everything.
Margie's journey begins with childhood curiosity about her mother's ever-present glass of scotch and water, evolves through becoming the "chug champ" of her sorority, and reaches a critical turning point after a horrific car accident. Despite having a rod surgically placed in her leg following the crash, Margie returned to drinking as soon as physically possible. It wasn't until a family intervention months later that her recovery journey truly began.
But getting sober was just the first step. As a professional whose job literally required "wining and dining" potential speakers, Margie found herself white-knuckling through business dinners, passing the wine list to others, and crafting excuses for why she wasn't drinking. When she briefly mentioned her sobriety during a professional talk ten years into her recovery, influential colleagues warned her not to "talk about that sober thing"—reinforcing her decision to keep this essential part of herself hidden.
The conversation takes a powerful turn when Margie describes the moment everything changed. At a women's conference 18.5 years into her sobriety, when asked how many didn't drink "for whatever reason," Margie slowly raised her hand alongside 15% of the room—women she knew professionally but had never realized shared this experience. This revelation led to co-founding Sober Life Rocks, creating spaces for professionals navigating alcohol-centric business environments while sober.
Shelby and Margie explore the evolution of recovery culture, the blessings of discomfort as a reminder of who we truly are, and the profound transformation that comes with authenticity. As Margie beautifully describes the sensation of finally living her truth: "I literally feel like my cells have rearranged themselves."
Ready to explore what authentic living might mean for you? Connect with Margie through the Sober Life Rocks community on LinkedIn or learn about the upcoming Amplify Sober Voices conference for those leading the sober movement.
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Oh, and by the way, if you didn’t know, my remote Neurofeedback Therapy program is up and running. Learn more here!
If you aren't part of the Confident Sober Women Facebook group, it's a great place to be. There are over a thousand other sober women there building lives they don't want to escape from. Come on over and join us.
And if you haven't read my memoir, grab a copy today and maybe a second one for a friend. There is so much hope in recovery, and I shared my story so raw and vulnerable so that others would know they aren't alone and that there is a way to live well, manage relationships, parent your kids, and have a healthy body, all while staying sober. Grab a copy of Recovering in Recovery: The Life-Changing Joy of Sobriety wherever books are sold.
Hey there, sober ladies. Thank you so much for joining me today for the Confident Sober Women Podcast. I am so excited to share my conversation with Margie Schaller. She's best known as a speaker coach and she's also the proud co-host of a podcast called Sober Life Rocks, and I had the pleasure of sharing time with her on that show as well, so you will probably be hearing me soon if you go check it out. She and I have a dynamic conversation about a lot of things. She's been in recovery for quite some time and her views are a mix of kind of old school like mine and also some modern day, and we really talk a lot about the gift and the blessings that we have to make choices today in sobriety and the power that comes with that. But we really also get into navigating the professional lives that we might be engaged in after we become sober, because she chose to keep her sobriety secret and did not tell anybody in her professional world, and so this became a challenge for her. She really shares intimately about that and we kind of have some deep dives into what that looks like for some of us how to navigate that, some real practical tips, tools and strategies for things that you guys can implement, if that is your story as well. But more than anything, we really just share the message of hope and what it means to be women in sobriety, what it means to make the choice today to choose ourselves, to choose health, to choose honesty and integrity and lives worth living today, and that's a real blessing that I love to talk about. So grab your big glass of water or your favorite mocktail and enjoy this conversation with Margie Schaller.
Speaker 1:Hello and welcome to the Confident Sober Women podcast. I'm your guide, shelby John. I'm the mother of three, wife to one and sober since July 1st 2002. As sober women, we have something huge in common and when we share our lives and our stories with each other, we feel that sense of belonging and connection. So we know we are no longer alone. In this podcast, you will hear real life talk about building confidence and transforming your life beyond recovery. So come on, let's talk. Hey, it's me, shelby.
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Speaker 1:You can go to my website wwwshelbyjohncom to download my free guide. Is Neurofeedback Right For you? Together, we'll create the calm, confident future you that you deserve. That's wwwshelbyjohncom. Take the first step towards training your brain for lasting change. Okay, well, hey there, margie, thank you so much for being here today and, as a part of the Confidence Over Women podcast, I'm so glad that you're here, so I'm going to turn the mic over to you and let you share a little bit more about your story, and then we're going to chat.
Speaker 2:Shelby, thank you so much for having me on. This is just a great opportunity, because the bottom line that I'll be getting to is I am now 20 years sober, but other than in my recovery community, I was secretly sober for 18 and a half of those years. So just a little bit about my story. I was raised by an alcoholic mother. I didn't know that term back then, of course, but I remember she always had this endless glass of scotch and water in the refrigerator door where the condiments are, and I would see her on a daily basis, hourly basis, go in, open the door, take a sip, put it back in, and at eight years old I was really curious about that. And so I remember looking around, opening the door, taking the sip, feeling the burn, and at eight I hated the taste, but that burn was intriguing, and so she and I, you know, sipped together on that endless glass of scotch and water over time. But I really didn't drink for effect back then. It was just curiosity.
Speaker 2:But it wasn't really middle school, high school, when things began to get a little bit more intentional, you know, stealing the beers and stealing the bottle of vodka, and making screwdrivers with my girlfriends you know all the things I was super proud of myself in college when I was the chug champ of my sorority. And by my 20s I got married and my husband's best friend was a wine distributor and I hadn't really been exposed to wine that much at that point. And so he would bring over like six bottles and put these brown wrappers around the outside and he would tell me what to cook that would go well, pair well, with these wines, and we'd have wine tastings and the three of us would taste the six bottles of wine and one of the things that he taught us was that wine didn't age well in the bottle. So of course, you know, we had to finish those off. But it became this art form, it became this experience, and that really is kind of where things turned for me, because it wasn't anymore about, like you know, the youthful drinking.
Speaker 2:Now. It was sophisticated and fast forward. I got divorced when my kids were still toddlers, but I love to cook and I love this art form, and so there I was cooking steak and mushroom sauce for my toddlers so that I could justify my bottle of Cabernet right. And it wasn't so much about like drinking with other people, it was about that art form at home. I remember my parents being a little bit concerned but I didn't pay attention, pay attention and over time the bottle of wine became a bottle and a half. And I remember driving home knowing that my kids didn't have any milk for cereal and not wanting to stop because I was tired, but then realizing I didn't have any wine at home and stopping because of the wine and not because of the kids milk. And I remember when I would go to the grocery store and you remember those six packs that you could, if you put six bottles of wine in it, you got 10% off.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:And thinking to myself well, I need to get two of those to get through the week. And there was a time when I just knew that there wasn't going to be an option, that that was just my life, that I just had to do that. And you know, I had a single mom, really difficult relationship, with my ex-husband working full-time to support me and my kids by myself. And I remember thinking, if you had my life, you would drink too. And so I had this whole justification system. Justification system. And in the fall of 2004, I went back east for my high school reunion and I hadn't kept up with anybody and I suffer from really bad social anxiety as it is. And so I remember thinking to myself you know, I don't want to get drunk at this event. I didn't like being drunk in front of other people, so I'm just going to limit myself to two glasses of wine or whatever. When I'm there and I walk in and I'm freaked out because it's just overwhelming and I don't know anybody. And you know that awkward, like you're looking at the name badges on somebody's chest and trying to associate that with the person's face, I mean, it was just horrible. And so I downed that first glass of wine, just, but it wasn't enough, and so I downed the second glass of wine, and I don't remember how many glasses I had after that. I do know that I shut down the bar with a couple of my classmates at the end of the night. And I do know that I shut down the bar with a couple of my classmates at the end of the night, and I do know that a bunch of people were assessing who was in good enough shape to drive home or not. And of course I was fine and you weren't. So I offered to drive one of my classmates home.
Speaker 2:Now, this was in Maryland, and at the time there was sort of the tail end of a hurricane blowing through and there was even reports of tornadoes in the area, which is highly unusual for that area. And so, driving through this driving rain, with the wind, and I get this guy home, drop him off, and now I'm headed back to my parents' house, and the roads were so slick that I was hydroplaning a couple of times, but I know how to handle that. But the next thing I know, I open my eyes and my car is wrapped around either a tree or a telephone pole I don't know which one. And I remember reaching around for my phone and I couldn't find it anywhere and the windshield is shattered. Remember reaching around for my phone and I couldn't find it anywhere. And so, and the windshield is shattered, I can just see like the crackly glass and the rain. And so I start to honk my horn to get attention from somebody anybody, it's, you know, two or three in the morning and I'm honking my horn and when I tell the story and if you're listening, I was not honking forward, I was honking from the side because the whole steering column had turned. And I'm honking and honking and through the shattered glass I see four people walking up with these horrified expressions and one of them called 911 and somebody else was able to get into the passenger seat and sit with me and keep me alert and talking until the paramedics came and evidently it took them close to an hour to cut me out of that car. I had a compound fracture in my leg where the steering column broke it and a broken collarbone, and they took me to the hospital and rushed me into surgery and I now have a rod in my leg. And they took me to the hospital and rushed me into surgery and I now have a rod in my leg.
Speaker 2:And as I recovered in the hospital, and then for a week or two at my parents' house because they couldn't let me fly home by myself my parents were trying to talk to me about the effect of my drinking and I said it was a hurricane, I hydroplaned. I was in such denial because I thought that I was fine. And so I get home finally, and I'm walking around my apartment with a walker, trying to take care of myself and my kids, and I hadn't had anything to drink during the time I was at my parents' house. So it had been probably three weeks and I couldn't grocery shop on my own. People were bringing me food and of course, I wasn't going to ask for wine after all of that, and so I probably had a good six weeks or so until I could drive. And when I finally got to the grocery store, the first thing that I did was stock up on wine. And when I finally got to the grocery store, the first thing I did was stock up on wine.
Speaker 2:So, fast forward to January of 2005, and I got a call from my brother who invited me to my own intervention, and he said it's going to be an alcohol education weekend for the whole family, meaning himself and my parents and me. And I said, yeah, I know what this is. This is a gang up on Margie event. And he said, well, no, it's not. I've talked to the guy and it's not that at all. And if it is, I will leave first and I'll hold the door for you. And I said to him are you willing to put our relationship on the line for this? And he said yes, I am. And so I got on a plane and I flew back to Maryland and I attended my own intervention and that's exactly what it was.
Speaker 2:The guy talked for the first half of a day about the disease of alcoholism, about the family. We did a family tree mapping, we talked about the effects of the family, what happens. And I remember at one point he asked me, he said or he talked to my dad? And he said are you a coffee drinker? And my dad said well, yeah. And he said every morning. And he said well, yeah. And he said have you ever gone to reach up into the shelf and pull down the can of coffee and shake it? And it's empty and that feeling of anxiety. And my dad's like, oh yeah, and he said that's a fraction of what it's like for somebody who is addicted to alcohol. And I remember my dad going what? And looking at me and I looked back at him and I said you don't know that Like for the person who isn't addicted to alcohol, they don't understand. Well, at the end of this weekend I reluctantly agreed to go to a 30-day inpatient treatment center and my parents God bless them flew out to San Diego where I was living at the time, and they learned how to be me and they were there and took my kids to school and all the things while I went to treatment.
Speaker 2:But I'll tell you, shelby, it was really really hard for me at first because I was looking around at all these people who had lost everything, who had lost their jobs and lost their homes and lost their marriages and lost their kids. I hadn't lost any of that. And it was probably about two and a half weeks in when an outside group from AA came in to give sort of a panel talk and one of them started describing my life and he talked about the fact that he still had the house and he still had the dog and he still had the wife and he still had the job and he still had the boat. And I was like I don't have a boat. But he said the one thing is that I lost myself. And that's the moment when it hit me that I didn't have any idea who I was. So I doubled down and I stayed another 30 days at a residential program where I learned how to go to the grocery store and not have the wine, leap into my cart and take a bath without the wine and cook without the wine and do all the things. And I threw myself headlong when I got home into AA and I did all the things. I got the sponsor and I worked the program and I craved and craved and craved and I tried and tried and tried to get through that craving and it was about six months but I stayed sober the entire time.
Speaker 2:But this began an interesting time for me, which was that I was petrified that anybody outside of AA was going to know that I was sober. Aa was going to know that I was sober. We had the Alano Club where I used to go on a very busy street, kind of in my neighborhood, and I remember parking out back and waiting until the light turned green so cars were going faster to run around to the front of the building and go inside in case anybody saw me. And I lived. My job was a very professional job and I was in charge of recruiting and maintaining speakers for a medical device company, and so I had to travel a lot and my job was literally to go out and wine and dine these potential speakers. And so I remember asking people in my AA community at the time like how do I navigate that? What do I do? And where I was, most of them were more blue collar style workers and they didn't have that sort of lifestyle in their work life, and so their best advice was you know, if you get into a situation that's uncomfortable, just leave early. Well, I had the corporate credit card, leave early. Well, I had the corporate credit card.
Speaker 2:I was the one hosting these events, so leaving early was not an option. I didn't know what else to do, and so I literally just sat and just white knuckled myself through those types of events. I mean, I remember one day I was on an airplane for the first time, and airplanes were great places to drink, and I was in the window seat and I could see the cart coming down the aisle and here it comes, and every step that it comes closer I'm just praying like please don't let me drink, please don't let me drink. And I remember saying to myself if the person next to me drinks, it's going to be over, because that aroma is going to be too much. And so the person next to me orders an apple juice and I was like, oh, I can do it, I can get through this flight, I can make it the first time that I was at one of these dinners that I had to host. So the waiter comes over and they hand the wine book to me, and to me that wine book represented my best friends, right. And so I hold this wine book in my hand and I look up and I say, does anybody else know wines? I'm not really that familiar with these and I just had to pass it over to let somebody else handle it because I couldn't handle it.
Speaker 2:Over the years those things got a little bit more. I got accustomed to them better. But you know, back 20 years ago there was still a lot of stigma. There's still a lot of judgment about people who were in recovery. So I would get questions like oh, why aren't you drinking tonight? Well, come on, just have one here. This wine is really good. Do you just want to have a taste, like all of the things that you can imagine? You know alcohol is the one thing, the one drug that if you don't partake in, you're questioned, and so that was really awkward for me and really really trying, but I didn't drink through any of it.
Speaker 2:Fast forward to about 10 years into my sobriety. I had started my new business. I'm a speaker coach and I had the opportunity to speak at a group of speakers. It was a conference for speakers and it was like this was my big moment. I had just launched my business six months before and I was going to be in front of all of these potential clients before. And I was going to be in front of all of these potential clients, and one of the things that I coach people on is that when you first start out a talk, it's good to let people know kind of who you are, what your why is, what your purpose is, as a way for them to connect with you.
Speaker 2:And so in a, you know I told the five minute version. I'll tell a 30 second version here, but I basically said. You know, I was raised in an alcoholic household. There was plenty of chaos, I didn't learn good life skills and I vowed I would never be like my mom, and by my 20s I was just like my mom, and I'm sure that there was people along the way there who could have helped me, but I didn't see them. And so in that talk I said so 10 years ago, when I finally did get sober, these amazing mentors showed up in my life, people who helped me learn how to put on makeup, how to dress professionally, how to be a good mother, how to be a good wife, how to be a good employee or employer, like all the life skills that my mom wasn't able to pass along to me. And I will never be able to repay those women, but the best that I can do is pay it forward, and that is why I'm here today, because I want to help you become the best version of yourself.
Speaker 2:Well, in that moment, the audience is leaning forward. They want to hear what I have to say next, and the rest of my talk went fantastically, and at the end people were rushing up to me, literally waving their business cards at me, saying can I please get in touch with you. I want to hire you. It was my dream come true, and I had some people who who came up and said thank you for sharing that. Like I, I have a story like that too. However, I had two separate people who were very influential in that group come up to me at different times and say you know, great job, margie, appreciate that story, but you might not want to talk about that sober thing, and that was my worst fear, and so from that point on, I'd never talked about it again. I never shared with another person in my professional life that I was sober. No, that's not true.
Speaker 2:I had like three trusted friends and they became kind of my sober wingmen, which is one of the phrases that we use at Sober Life Rocks People who, when I was at a conference with them and they knew that I had this social anxiety and they knew that I wasn't drinking we would go up to the bar and they would order their drink and I would say you know, can I have a club soda and lime right the go-to. And my friend would turn to the bartender and say come on, don't you have anything better than that? For that doesn't have alcohol in it Like they would advocate for me, which was really sweet. One of the other people that I knew was my now co-founder of Sober Life Rocks. She had gotten sober on TikTok during the pandemic, just sort of out loud, and I was like so I didn't know what to do with that. It was uncomfortable for me to see somebody just out loud talking about their sobriety in this public way, but I was like great for her. And so I saw her at a conference. We weren't friends but we were friendly colleagues and because she had done that, I came up, I went up to her and I said you know, congratulations on getting sober. I've been sober for X number of years. She was like wow, I had no idea. I'm like I know nobody does, I don't talk about it.
Speaker 2:So fast forward now to a year and a half ago and she and I were at a women's conference for entrepreneurs. There was about 125 women there and she was on a panel called Mind Body Health and she was talking about the effect of her sober journey on her entrepreneurial life and sort of spontaneously, during one of the questions she turned to the group and she's like "'I'm just curious how many people here in this room "'don't drink for whatever reason'. Now, in that moment, I had this big choice to make. So I start slowly raising my hand and looking around the room through my side eye and Shelby like 15% of the room was raising their hand too, and I knew most of these women and I had no idea and they had no idea about me. And I look up at Laura and Laura looks at me. We're both stunned at what just happened. And we went to lunch afterwards and I said you know, this has got to stop, and it has to stop with me first. I can no longer put baby in the corner. And so that's when Sober Life Rocks was born, because we felt like there's lots of places that support people getting sober which is amazing but we couldn't find anywhere that really supports people in their professional lives.
Speaker 2:Navigating, navigating the hey, let's meet for happy hour. Hey, let's meet at the bar. Hey, the airport bar. Hey, the happy hour. Hey, let's meet at the bar. Hey, the airport bar. Hey, the airplane drinking. Hey, the networking things, like all the things that are centered around alcohol. It's the currency of connection in our professional lives. So, for people who don't drink, what is there for them? What is there for them and I got to tell you, since I now live my sobriety out loud in all parts of my life, I literally feel like my cells have rearranged themselves. I feel like I just I came into my body in a whole new way and the authenticity and the joy and the connection to others has just been unexpectedly amazing.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, thank you so much for sharing all of that. I loved all of those stories and as you were talking, there was parts of my brain that were just like firing off in all directions in so many ways that I know that we could probably have like two full episodes of talking, cause that's how these conversations go, especially with um, I think women that are have been sober for a long time. I got sober in 2002. So just a little ahead of you, and actually I was questioning that, like when you said 20 years, I was like, well, how? Then you said 2004. I was like, oh okay, I already had one kid by then.
Speaker 1:So like I think it was after, I forgot anyway, when you've been, when you've gotten in state sober for a long time, I think you know there's so much that goes on in that lifetime. You know, like I always I wrote a memoir during the pandemic as well and just kind of told my real raw story, which is very vulnerable and kind of new at like you, I think at that time when we got sober at least for me in 2002, there was there was like AA and treatment, that's it, and I did both of those things.
Speaker 1:That's it was taught to do. We didn't have Quitlet. There wasn't even Facebook. I don't think yet. I mean there wasn't no online groups or any of this, and so, which was fine, so like that's what worked for me, that's what I did, but when so I wrote, that thing for me was extremely vulnerable, because I felt like I was kind of raised up in this anonymous environment.
Speaker 1:Right, we were taught to be anonymous and and I was very loyal to that, like I took it very seriously. Now, everybody in my life knew, you know, like most people already knew, right, um and um, I didn't wasn't ashamed to tell people necessarily, but I didn't have, I was, I didn't have like a huge networker business community at that time. So, um, my life was a little bit smaller I guess, and so I wasn't publicly displaying that out, so doing things like writing that. But what my point of bringing that up was, when I wrote that memoir I said, if you, and every lifetime there is, there are moments where there's a before and an after.
Speaker 1:And for me that was July 1st 2002, right. So there was my before July 1st 2002. And then there was my after, this whole lifetime, decades of sobriety, that where I had to relearn, like you mentioned, how to like feed myself properly and like, do skincare. And then I had three, I got sober and six months later I had a baby and then like, or I was pregnant and then I had three kids in four years and like, how do I parent? And like all that stuff. And so I do feel like it's like two lifetimes, but we've learned so much, so much emotional sob each other, which was so cool.
Speaker 1:I love the story that you told about your dad with the coffee. I've never heard it put that way, but I think it's so relevant. You know, I think most people I can relate to that story with the coffee. Most people can relate to that and even though we're kind of making light of it, it's obviously not the same thing. It is similar to a person, but you're right, like they don't have any frame of reference to what it's like to have that feeling that we know and that's why it's easy for people to say, well, why can't you just stop?
Speaker 1:yeah, you can't. You just look at those kids and just stop. You know, because, because you can't, and so I really liked that. You shared that and I know there'll be tons of people who can relate to that.
Speaker 2:And the sensation of craving was was an interesting one for me, both when I was drinking but when I quit as well. Literally, I only drank after work. I didn't. I never drank during the day Well, on the weekends, but I mean never during the week and so right around the time that I was driving home was my high danger time. I could visualize the beads of sweat coming down the side of a glass. I could visualize like the smell and the taste, and it was so powerful, and so I look at that as a gift today, because many people who quit drinking have some horrendous thing that they hit bottom in some way or another. You would think that my car accident was that, but it wasn't, and so, because I still had my life intact, I look now at those months of craving as the thing that drove me to work really hard at putting in place all of the aspects I needed to get and stay sober, and that I never want to go through that again, and that was enough for me to really really take all of this seriously. I know that, but another piece of my story which I really didn't get into and I think it's really important for anybody who has gotten through the getting sober part and now was living life part.
Speaker 2:You know, I was really really involved in the AA for the first about 10 years and I didn't need it. But I loved it and I loved the idea that I was there for other people who were coming in. But I saw people around me with the freedom and the joy, emotionally, that I wasn't feeling. I still was feeling as though I just had a little bit of this wet blanket on me and I couldn't. I couldn't figure out why I had done all the things. And I remember talking to my sponsor one time and she suggested that maybe I might look into Al-Anon. So I thought, well, that's not really doesn't sound like it's going to resonate, but I'm willing to look into it because you do what your sponsor suggests.
Speaker 2:And so I went down to this recovery bookstore and I found the shelf area where all the Al-Anon material was and she had said you know, just open up a couple of books and read a couple of pages and see if anything hits. And I did and it didn't. But right next to that was another book talking about adult children of alcoholics. And so I picked up that book and I opened it up and there I am in this recovery bookstore weeping, absolutely just. It hit me right in my heart because all of the pain that I was still carrying with me, 10 years sober, was described in these pages that I just magically opened up in this random book.
Speaker 2:And so from that point I founded ACA Meeting and I walked in just like you walk into any other brand new meeting, just going I'm not sure what this is and I'm not sure if this is for me and immediately everything that was being said resonated with me down to my core.
Speaker 2:And so for the past 10 years I've been deeply involved and regularly working on things from adult children of alcoholics and the title actually is they've adopted it to be and other dysfunctional families, because the things that ACA talks about is the tapes that were implanted into our heads at very young ages that no longer work for us, longer work for us. And so in that book it describes, if you come from a very strict religious background or a military background, or maybe adopted or fostered or abusive or sexually abusive, that the program works for all of those types of upbringings, because the commonality is we were not allowed to be children, we were not safe to express our emotional needs. We were told we should be something that we maybe weren't naturally, and that's you talked about the emotional healing. That, for me, is where the emotional healing journey has taken me, and it's been life-changing.
Speaker 1:I think there are so many parts to that too. Like, again, I think, if you live long enough and you stay sober long enough, in that, um, we have all of these different ages and stages, right. So I'm going to be 50 in a couple months. I have these three kids. They're young adults, two are in college, one is a junior. So I'm like in this, like sort of next phase of life too. I've stayed married this whole time and that's been a whole thing, you know and so. But now we're like in this next phase, right, and so I think, for me I just related to something else you said too, about the um, the cravings, and you know, I know I do want us to talk about living and I think that's really important.
Speaker 1:But part of me, I think, I think my higher power that I choose to call God, that I do have a very, very strong relationship with and thank God, um, knew that what exactly what I needed, because I wasn't the person that came in here to the rooms and was like oh, by the way, like I think I have a problem, I think I need some help, like I was set there via jail, right, and so like and so, like that wasn't, didn't ever occur to me that that like that was a thing, and so I was too scared not to follow the directions. But I certainly didn't think like drinking had anything to do with it, and so I took like 18 months of sitting in AA meetings like regularly every day to like even really begin to think like, oh well, maybe I actually do belong here. So it was a sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly phenomenon for me that just took a really long time of stubbornness.
Speaker 2:Right, just painful.
Speaker 1:I'm just so. I guess my point. My point is is I'm so grateful and I made me think about even kind of the topic we were going to talk about today, that like that, those uncomfortable feelings that come up sometimes when you're out socially or you're with your family or you smell the things. I'm so grateful for that. And I don't know that other people in the in the modern sobriety era maybe they do.
Speaker 1:I don't get that feeling from some people that they appreciate that you know that they understand what a blessing it is to be able to have discomfort around that Right, because to me and not maybe it's just the way I was taught.
Speaker 1:I was like I was taught like that's how we know, like cause, I didn't want, I didn't. I mean maybe I did, but now I certainly don't want to live my life questioning whether or not I'm an alcoholic and I spent a long time doing that and now I don't really give a darn. Like I mean I'm like great, I gave up something and got everything Right and so, but like I'm so grateful for those moments, because there have been times in 20 years sobriety where I was like you know, like well, maybe, like I mean people do go back. You know there are now modern people that are like teaching people how to drink. Response I know one of them and actually I get like a visceral response every time I see her stuff online because I like her. But I'm just like wow you're really hurting people anyway.
Speaker 1:So I went to California to do a Ted talk a couple years ago two years ago now, I guess I was in LA. It was this whole big thing I live in, you know, northern Maryland. It's very different and I was extremely excited about the situation. I was really nervous. It was the hardest thing I've ever done in my whole life, probably, or one of them. And I'm staying in this fancy hotel in LA. I was being paid for it, staying in this fancy hotel in LA. I was being paid for it.
Speaker 1:Like that's never happened to me, because I've never had like a I'm a therapist, you know, I've never had a corporate job, I don't, you know. Um, that's the kind of stuff my husband gets to do. And they, you know it was, I was. Everything was paid for. So I said, okay, I'm going to go down into this bar or whatever and get a salad or something to eat. And you know, the non-alcoholic beverage adult beverage scene has exploded all over the place, right, and so I don't drink that because I just never have. I don't find it necessary, I don't want anything that tastes like alcohol. It's not my thing, I don't, and I don't want to pay for that, because I'd rather eat food, and so I was like you know what I'm in LA Like? So, on the menu were these fancy brands that I had heard about because I've interviewed some of them.
Speaker 1:The menu were these fancy brands that I had heard about because I've interviewed some of them, and I knew and I was like you know, you know I'm out here, like I should just try that, like it's on the menu you know, I was like, okay, cool, so I ordered this mocktail and she set that thing in front of me in a glass, a bourbon glass, with a giant ice cube in it with the brown liquid and some kind of garnish.
Speaker 1:And I this was two years ago, okay I was like, wow, okay, like that looks like a real, like I it happened like the thing happened right where I was, like I clicked over into like wow, that is like really nice, and like I started doing this little thing and I drank it and I was like this is actually not even that good, but of course I'm going to drink it all because I paid for it. Right, be like there might be like what, if there is like a little bit of this? I mean I don't know. I mean I had this whole thing and I'm like I have been sober for a long time and that was such a blessing.
Speaker 1:The next day I actually went to the amy they had was at the National Conference for Wellness, national Council for Wellness, I think that's what it's called. It was this big conference, natcon, and they have it's all a lot of substance abuse and mental health, first aiders and stuff, and so they had AA meetings at 7am or something every morning and so I just like you know what, I'm gonna pop in there and I don't even really know anymore. I was like I'm gonna go in there because I feel like maybe, like maybe somebody would get something out of that story. So I told that story for myself, frankly, but also for anybody else who wanted to hear it. But it, but it was so important to me as a reminder about who I am and what I am you know, and I feel like into like, and I probably will get like crap for saying this from some people.
Speaker 1:but when you're talking to people who I am and what I am, you know, and I feel like into like, and I probably will get like crap for saying this from some people.
Speaker 1:But when you're talking to people who I know were very similar, like in today, like in the some of the stuff that's happening today, with like sober curious and like gray area drinking and all those things, like I don't really believe that, like I don't think there is such a thing as gray area drinking, and so I think, uh, you know, alcohol is a poison. I don't think there is such a thing as gray area drinking and so I think, you know, alcohol is a poison. We don't need it. So I'm just grateful, grateful for those moments when I'm uncomfortable, and I think we should really all embrace that, even though it is very uncomfortable, but anxiety is not going to kill you, at least not right away, like in that moment while you're standing there at a business event. You're just going to have an uncomfortable feeling, but I'm like that's a tool, you know, that's like a, that's a signal to you to say, yep, you're exactly where you think.
Speaker 2:you're doing exactly the things that you need to be doing right yeah, yeah, yeah, and I will say that, um, I don't regret not sharing my sobriety in my professional life 20 years ago, like I think that would have been damaging to me. I think 20 years ago we were living in an era where that was a thing. I will say that today we live in an era where some people still have that kind of judgment. That women's meeting that I mentioned, where Laura said how many people don't drink for whatever reason, and 15% of the room raised their hands. We learned that at a dinner later that night. There was a group of I don't know 10 women at a dinner and one of the women said can you believe that people would raise their hand and admit to the mess in their lives? So it's still out there.
Speaker 2:However, I am so thankful to the celebrities that were willing to be open and honest over the past five, ten years and I think that they really broke the ice for us. I wish that 10 years ago, when I gave that talk, that those two people didn't influence my decision. I wish that 10 years ago I had made the decision that that was enough and I was healed enough to be able to withstand that. But I wasn't. But today. I think that the fact that I'm willing to speak out loud about it might just help somebody else.
Speaker 2:And my understanding of gray area drinking is this new medical term about the substance use disorder or alcohol use disorder, that it's a spectrum and that everybody who drinks at all is somewhere on the spectrum.
Speaker 2:Right and old school AA was that you had to hit rock bottom to get sober. And my hope is that, because we're now having these conversations, because there is so much quitlet, because there's so much podcasting and Facebooking and LinkedIn and all the conversations that are going on, that people can question their relationship with alcohol sooner and, if they feel like it's not serving them, they can stop drinking without having to hit some kind of horrendous bottom, without having to wrap their tree around a telephone pole and think it's because it was the rain, or without having to end up in jail or whatever the things are that we all did. I feel like nobody should talk about their experience until they're ready. Nobody should talk about their experience until they're ready. But for those of us that are ready, the more that we can, the more that we give permission to others to take a look at it and not have it be a shame-based decision, but rather an intentional quality-of-life decision. I mean, can you imagine?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I totally agree with that and I think that we are in that space now. That's why I call it the modern day recovery year, and it's fair. It was a very bizarre shift and maybe you can relate to that, Like I mean, where we came from, where I came from, and on my little community. I mean, I went to all of me, I did the things.
Speaker 2:I did all my therapy.
Speaker 1:I, we did marriage. I mean I mean we did it all All the things. I had to kind of go back and redo it because before you're sober I had like a sober bottom where I was like what the hell? Because I was doing some. I mean I didn't forget about my recovery, but like it was a lot. It was just a lot but like, but you know we were I was growing up at that time what?
Speaker 1:was I probably like 16 really, while I got sober instead of 27. Like, like, like I was growing up to becoming trying to figure out how to be an adult and also a mom and a wife and like all the things. And so, yeah, it takes the time it takes. I mean, at 10 years sober, I stood at my anniversary and I was pissed off. I stood at that podium and was like this is ridiculous. I think I should be further.
Speaker 1:I can't believe I still have to do this stuff. I mean, I said that I was like so mad that it was still this much work, still so hard. You know, and I was, you know, I look back on that think like, wow, you're really like that was really self-centered, but like I was just still rowing, you know, it was still so much self-centeredness. But it takes all the, all the things that it takes for us to get to these places where now we are here but we get to share our stories because we want to and you're right, not Not everybody wants to do that and you don't have to.
Speaker 1:it's the beautiful thing about life and some people like to do it, you know, through art, you know. Or some people like to do it, you know, in their own journals, and then they just they just show up in life, maybe, and they're just kind or generous or they're really good at service, but they don't talk about that piece, you know. But but they could if they wanted to and they don't have to be so public. I mean, for me, I was a therapist, a licensed clinical therapist. I've had my own practice and then about six or seven years ago, I decided I wanted to step out and start creating like a coaching product and like start to really kind of just because I wanted to work specifically with sober women.
Speaker 1:So I started this podcast, I built a course, I started coaching and I worked with multiple mentors along the way on that. Now, I'm not a business person, I'm a therapist. So none of that. I had to learn all of it. I had to learn everything about marketing and lead. I didn't know any of that, and so I was trying to be an anxiety coach or health coach or somebody who helps people with their anxiety, because that's my specialty right.
Speaker 1:I help people with anxiety and trauma, and so I do my practice. But what I really wanted to do was work with women in recovery. But I couldn't figure, I couldn't figure out how to say that and I couldn't do it. Really, I wasn't, I couldn't. I was so bound and I'm totally not against the program. I love it so, so much and I don't. I don't go. I was so bound and I'm totally not against the program. I love it so, so much and I don't. I don't go to a lot of meetings anymore. I would. I don't have any problem with it, but I was bound by that anonymity piece because I was loyal to it in a good way.
Speaker 1:I loved it and I didn't want to disrespect it, so I was like how am I supposed to show up and be out you?
Speaker 1:know, and finally, you know, and finally this one coach I was working and I was, and I was struggling and I wasn't working and I was like this doesn't feel right and like just was just really weird. And he finally said to me why don't you just be who you are like? Why don't you just be, do what you are? What a crazy idea. I can't do that, I can't do that. And he was like like you don't have to say anything negative. Same with my Ted talk. Right, I was working with a speaker coach who was assigned. That was a blessing that I got from being part of that conference. It was a very generous blessing. I love that part because he helped too, cause I was. I was so emotional writing that talk and I said I can't, I can't say anything negative about it. I just don't want anybody to ever think I'm saying there's something wrong with that program or that it's not enough.
Speaker 1:It is, but then there's all these layers.
Speaker 1:And he was so gracious and was like you don't have to do that, you can just say also, we need these things, you know. And so it really worked way better, because then I showed up as myself, I was speaking from my heart and my story and relating to women in the ways that I could connect with, and it was so much better, you know. But I think it just takes the time it takes, and if I had tried to do that 10 years ago in that space right, I don't know that it would have shown up as as healthy, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we get to be this today.
Speaker 1:Like we and we get to be like and like the example that you used about those women. It hurts my heart when I hear people when you say that, because in my mind I don't think there is a stigma anymore. But I know I live in like a la la land with that Cause. I just think everybody is it's fine, like, like nobody cares. But clearly in some circles I think they do, but they only care if they care because it struck a nerve it's only care, so people can be mean, cruel.
Speaker 1:But what I thought immediately when you said that about that woman, I just wanted to say to her just put my hand on her shoulder and say imagine being the kind of person that says that about someone else. Like, imagine being that kind of person. Like that's yeah, like because you probably have a problem with alcohol.
Speaker 1:Like I'm sorry or has been seriously damaged by somebody who has, yeah, the only person, that's people that say things like that, are people who also either have a problem or who lived, who grew up like that and yes your fault, but it is.
Speaker 1:It does make you do things that are it can be mean yeah we do live in a different time and I'm so grateful and I and I'm here for it, and I love that we can express ourselves in so many ways. I just get nervous. I get nervous about the younger folk, um, who are, or anybody, I guess, who wants to do things. You know, and again, I can only say this to people, I think, who are more rooted like we are, who I don't know. You know, I think if you are talking about quitting alcohol, like we know, it's a poison. Nobody, nobody, should drink it. The World Health Organization said no amount of alcohol is safe for anybody. If you're talking about doing that, then you probably have, there's probably a problem, but people don't want to say that, you know.
Speaker 2:You know I'm excited by this next generation. I think that this next generation looks at things through a different lens than prior generations have and I think that they're more exploratory and more open to trying things and truly experiencing that trial. And so if sober curious leads somebody to try not drinking for a month and see how they feel, but not declaring I'm going to quit drinking, like okay, do that. Be curious and be aware of how you feel. And if it is something that you then think, well, I could just, you know, go to drinking on occasion at a wedding and that works for you, like great. But if it leads to you feeling like wow, my life is so much better, I want to keep going great.
Speaker 1:Like there's no wrong answers in curiosity I totally agree with you and for a while in the beginning I was really like offended by it all. I felt like like it took me a while and it's not our way, right.
Speaker 1:I would say this, but in out loud. I would say I'm so glad like whatever works for you and I still believe that like whatever works for you. But lately, in the last like one or two years, I really have been like you know what that's their journey, you know, and if you curiosity helps you. I guess in the beginning I was afraid, like because.
Speaker 1:I was afraid it would keep people drunk longer. You know, and if you curiosity helps you, I guess in the beginning I was afraid, like cause, I was afraid it would keep people drunk longer you know, which then they may not get there. So I was just like so afraid that it would just make people die.
Speaker 2:I mean, if I put, if I put me in my twenties in today, I would have wanted to be take part in dry January as a bandwagoner. I love, I love joining things that everybody else is doing. So I would have done that, I would have white knuckled it, I would have like hooray for me, I got through it and February 1, I would have been off to the races. So for me it would not have done what I needed to get that kind of clarity and sobriety, because I would have been doing it for all the wrong reasons.
Speaker 1:And you're. But, like you said, and I think a lot of people probably are like that and they are doing that, but you know what? So who, who cares? So 30 days you stay sober and like, hey, good for you. And then you get to experience whether you, whether it all, registers at that time or not, or maybe you go back to it or you file it away in your brain. You know, as you get to experience, what happens for you and your body and your brain when you aren't drinking. How often are you thinking about drinking? What happened to your body? Your skin cleared up? Oh, my gosh, my digestive tract is working properly Like I can.
Speaker 2:I can sleep better yeah.
Speaker 1:Like when you start. But if you do it like, if you're able to be like, oh, I noticed these things, and then you go back to doing what you were doing and then things go back and then hopefully you don't like that, you know, and you make the connection. So you're right now. I'm just kind of like you know what.
Speaker 1:It's not my story, you know, it was really it wasn't out of like like, those feelings weren't like, those programs were bad. I'm friends with a lot of those women. I've talked to them and I'm grateful for them that are doing those things. I just I was more afraid. Yeah, I don't think my way is the best way. I don't mean whatever. Everyone has their own thing but I just don't want people to suffer any longer than they have to.
Speaker 1:But I also know we all have to suffer as long as it takes for us to get to where, where we're, where we're sick and tired of being sick and tired and sometimes it means in out in out. You know I have a client that I've been working with for a couple of years Well, no, it was probably a year Chronic, chronic, chronic relapse. They're older than me, same kids chronic, lifelong alcoholic.
Speaker 2:So painful, Multiple I couldn't stand it anymore.
Speaker 1:I was like I just can't even work with you anymore. I mean I did, but I was just like I can't watch you die, like it was awful and I mean I understand it, but my heart was just breaking, you know, and I just pray, like they went back to treatment again um, just recently and I pray, I just pray that it, you know it sticks like.
Speaker 1:This is the time because I do believe we do recover. We should never give up. We don't know when the time is going to be, but it's heartbreaking for those around you.
Speaker 2:You know. So I'm grateful. I will say that when I think back to my time in AA, then I was really deep in it. What, what made such a difference for me was having a supportive community and being able to hear people who felt the things that I felt that I didn't feel like, so completely unique, like nobody else can understand me. Everybody else in the room could understand me, and so I would say that in today's world, with all of the choices, community and um, a community where people actually talk about what's really going on is is so important. It's so important, like getting sober through a book or getting sober through a video or getting sober through, you know, online stuff. My hats are off to you if you can do that. But I would say community is everything, and I think for me, that's one of the reasons why now being openly sober in all areas of my life is because there are people who didn't know this about me who are now such cheerleaders and so supportive.
Speaker 2:I'll tell a quick story, which is I am part of a community choir and so you know, in a choir, like, there's no reason why they would know that I drink or don't drink. I'm pretty open about it Like. On all of my drinking glasses I have our logo Sober Life Rocks, and so if anybody cared to look at that, they could see it. I'm not hiding it, but it's just not a conversational piece.
Speaker 2:And two weeks ago our choir director, at the end of choir, said you know, it's being a tough time for a lot of people right now, and so, rather than spend the last 10 minutes rehearsing one more piece, I just want to hear some good news. I just want to hear from people like what's some good news going on? And so one person raised their hand and say, oh, I just got a new job, and I was like yay. And somebody said, oh, I got to take my kids to Disneyland. I was like yay. Somebody else said something else, and so finally I just here we go. And I raised my hand and I said I just celebrated 20 years sober, and the entire choir erupted Like it wasn't that yay, it was like hooting and hollering and clapping. It just felt tremendous to have this community.
Speaker 1:And you know why they did that, Because everybody knows someone whether it's in their family, whether they were raised by one the living one, their one themselves or their parenting one. It is so pervasive that it affects every single person, so no matter what community you're in, that's why they cheered like that, because everybody knows what that means. Yeah, All of them, maybe not themselves.
Speaker 1:But they know what that means and it's profound, you're right, like I think community too, and that's why. And but they know what that means and it's profound, you're right, like I think community too, and that's why. But I love that we have the books. I love that we have all the things. That's why I still recommend AA in the beginning, because you need a fellowship of people who are sober, doing sober things. Like you need to be like a little bit brainwashed, but like that's not the only thing you need.
Speaker 1:It's just that it will help you get around people who are automatically the same right Like they're not going to be the same, or people who would not normally mix right, but they're going to be telling stories.
Speaker 1:It's also a place where you can laugh at the worst things ever. You know, like, and you're sitting and you're like, oh my gosh, but everyone's laughing about this horrific story. So, yeah, or people you can call and say, like I just really want to, like, shake my kid right now. You know like, how do I not do that, you know, and then they help you do that, right? So yeah, I mean, we all need people who are similar to us, even though they might be in a different stage of life or beliefs or whatever else, but that that is truly how it works, and so I don't think you have to look for to find it anymore, which I'm really grateful for.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much, Margie, for your time. This has been just a phenomenal conversation actually. I think super refreshing to just be like deep in our roots about sobriety and like who we are and what we are and just embracing that. I love that so much, and the community I know is going to as well. So where do you like people to reach out and get a hold of you if they want to?
Speaker 2:Well, a couple of things. One is soberliferockscom is our website. We now have the largest sober professionals group on LinkedIn and what you would type into the search bar is Sober Life Rocks community. We do have a page with the community and anybody can join. We have people there who are from HR, who are event planners, who are just the professional lives and just carrying on the conversation about what it is to navigate our lives as sober people professionally and what we can do to normalize it. And then the third thing I want to mention is that we are hosting a conference in January of 2026 called Amplify Sober Voices, and it's for speakers and podcasters and writers and coaches and anybody who is leading the sober movement to come and amplify our sober voices. And so that's Am sober voicescom.
Speaker 1:Awesome. I'll make sure I link all of that in the show notes below. So thank you again. So much for your time.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:I hope our paths cross again soon and I hope you have a fantastic day.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me, Shelby, it's really really been special.
Speaker 1:You're so welcome, all right, awesome. Thank you for joining me for this week's episode of Confident Sober Women. If you enjoyed this conversation, hit the subscribe button above so you won't miss any upcoming episodes. And hey, if you really loved it, leave me a review. You can learn more about the Sober Freedom Inner Circle membership at wwwshelbyjohncoachingcom. Forward slash inner circle. See you next time.