Confident Sober Women

Rebuilding What Addiction Broke: A Mother's Journey to Reconnection

• Shelby • Episode 210

Share episode

Rebuilding What Addiction Broke: A Conversation with Janice Johnson Dowd


In this powerful episode of the Confident Sober Women podcast, we're joined by Janice Johnson Dowd, author of "Rebuilding Relationships in Recovery." As a retired social worker with 12 years of sobriety and a mother of four, Janice shares her journey from functioning alcoholic to recovery advocate with remarkable candor.


Episode Highlights:

  • Janice's background working in addiction treatment centers before her own alcoholism developed in her 40s
  • The complex dynamics of balancing motherhood, career, and self-care that contributed to her drinking
  • Her experience with inpatient treatment and how focusing exclusively on recovery actually damaged family relationships
  • The challenging path of repairing relationships with her four children (ages 13-21 at the time of her treatment)
  • Why validation, accountability, and persistent communication are crucial for family healing
  • The importance of finding balance between recovery work and family reconnection
  • How to effectively listen to and validate different family members' experiences
  • Why staying sober is the foundation for rebuilding trust, but isn't enough on its own


Practical Takeaways:

  1. Take accountability for your actions and validate others' perspectives, even when they differ from yours
  2. Practice deep listening without immediate reactions, especially with adolescents and young adults
  3. Persist in healing efforts even when family therapy or initial conversations feel uncomfortable or unsuccessful
  4. Recognize developmental differences in how children process a parent's addiction and recovery
  5. Find balance between recovery work and family engagement
  6. Take advantage of small moments for connection and organic healing conversations
  7. Get support from sponsors, therapists, and recovery peers when navigating challenging family situations

Janice emphasizes that repair is possible even after significant damage to relationships. Her story offers hope to those struggling with similar challenges and provides practical guidance for rebuilding what addiction has broken.


Connect with Janice:

  • Book: "Rebuilding Relationships in Recovery" by Janice V. Johnson Dowd
  • Website: janicejohnsondowd.com
  • Instagram: @parenting_inn_recovery

Whether you're in recovery yourself or supporting someone who is, this episode provides valuable insights into the complex journey of family healing after addiction.


Support the show

Support the show

Oh, and by the way, if you didn’t know, my remote Neurofeedback Therapy program is up and running. Learn more here!

If you aren't part of the Confident Sober Women Facebook group, it's a great place to be. There are over a thousand other sober women there building lives they don't want to escape from. Come on over and join us.

And if you haven't read my memoir, grab a copy today and maybe a second one for a friend. There is so much hope in recovery, and I shared my story so raw and vulnerable so that others would know they aren't alone and that there is a way to live well, manage relationships, parent your kids, and have a healthy body, all while staying sober. Grab a copy of Recovering in Recovery: The Life-Changing Joy of Sobriety wherever books are sold.

Speaker 1:

Well, hey there, sober ladies. Thank you so much for joining me today for the Confident Sober Women podcast, and today I'm having a conversation with my friend, janice Johnson-Dowd. She is a social worker, she's a recovering alcoholic and a mom of four and she's the author of the book Rebuilding Relationships in Recovery, and that is exactly what we talk about this entire episode. She shares on a deep personal level about her recovery experience, specifically in treatment. She was able to go to a long-term treatment facility and then continued care after that. We really get vulnerable about what her addiction history and her response in her recovery did in her family, like how that affected her children and her ex-husband or husband at the time, their dad, kind of the things that she feels maybe would have been better for her to do, how she could have handled things differently. Looking back now, I think this is going to really help anybody out there who is perhaps in maybe early recovery or even not. If you're just still struggling with your family relationships in relation to maybe how things have gone in your active addiction up until now, or even if you're been in recovery a long time. I mean, all of us have different ages and stages in our relationships, so I think you're going to get a lot out of this conversation. So I want you to grab that big glass of water or your favorite mocktail and listen to this conversation with Janice Johnson-Dowd.

Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to the Confident Sober Women podcast. I'm your guide, shelby John. I'm the mother of three, wife to one, and sober since July 1st 2002. As sober women, we have something huge in common, and when we share our lives and our stories with each other, we feel that sense of belonging and connection. So we know we are no longer alone.

Speaker 1:

In this podcast, you will hear real life talk about building confidence and transforming your life beyond recovery. So come on, let's talk. Hey, it's me, shelby. Have you ever wondered what's really happening in your brain during recovery? Are you ready to take control of your anxiety, sleep better and finally feel focused and confident?

Speaker 1:

I want to introduce you to a game changer that's transforming women's recovery remote neurofeedback therapy. I want you to think of this as a personal trainer for your brain. It's helping you build new neuropathways right from the comfort of your own home. So if you're dealing with anxiety that just won't quit, if you have ADHD that's making life chaotic or sleep issues that leave you exhausted. Neurofeedback could be your missing piece. It's science-backed brain training that works with your natural healing process, helping you regulate emotions and build lasting confidence. The best part is, you don't need to add another appointment to your busy schedule. My remote neurofeedback program brings professional guidance and support right to your living room. Do you want to learn more? Remote neurofeedback program brings professional guidance and support right to your living room. Do you want to learn more about neurofeedback therapy?

Speaker 1:

You can go to my website wwwshelbyjohncom to download my free guide. Is Neurofeedback Right For you? Together, we'll create the calm, confident future you that you deserve. That's wwwshelbyjohncom. Take the first step towards training your brain for lasting change. Hey there, janice. Thank you so much for joining me today for the Confidence Over Women podcast. I'm so excited to have you on the show and to have an amazing conversation that I know our audience is going to enjoy. So I'm going to turn the mic over to you and let you share a little bit more about your story, and then we're going to chat.

Speaker 2:

Okay, well, I'm very happy to be here and to share a little bit, because I think the most important thing we do is to tell our stories and reduce stigma and reach out to others. So, but I am an author, speaker, retired social worker I'm no longer actively in practice or coaching because I'm putting my time into writing and teaching so, but I'm, more importantly, I'm 12 years sober. I'm the mother of four kids. 12 years sober, I'm the mother of four kids and despite being a social worker and thinking that I had some good self-help skills, I started drinking in my 40s and became, you know, a full-blown alcoholic. So I'm one of those later in life drinkers, someone who avoid all the early warning signs of their alcoholism, denial all of that and start drinking anyhow.

Speaker 2:

So my story, a little more, is I grew up in an alcoholic home. My dad was, you know, your typical functioning alcoholic. Our family life wasn't horrible, but it definitely was confusing and dysfunctional and there is no real guidance on how to deal with emotions or feelings, or it's a very authoritative household. So we never discussed my dad's drinking or the problems at home. So, of course, what does a kid from that family do? We either grow up and have our own problems. We marry or get involved with partners who have problems or we become workers in the helping professional, and that's what I did.

Speaker 2:

So as a young person I experimented with alcohol or drugs, but I already was so much a codependent and controlling person as a young person. I experimented with alcohol or drugs, but I already was so much a codependent and controlling person as a young person that I didn't like the effect of alcohol or drugs. Alcohol made me feel out of control. I only experimented with pot as a young person and that made me feel paranoid. So that really wasn't my escape from, you know, my emotional struggles at home or as a kid growing up. Instead, I had kind of a healthy escape in that I was an athlete and it kept me out of trouble.

Speaker 2:

So I, of course, was drawn to the helping professional, became a social worker and stepped right into what I knew. And this is the crazy part of my story, because I started out my career in alcoholism and addiction treatment working as a family therapist, primarily in inpatient treatment centers, and at that point I had some pretty good self-help skills and worked on myself and I think I was on a path to some good self-care. But despite all that, like I said earlier, I still started drinking in my 40s, was in full-blown denial and my drinking just accelerated. I believe in the genetic concept of drinking, do you yeah?

Speaker 1:

Yes, and some ways I'm not a scientist. So I think that first of all, by the way, thank you for sharing your, your story. I guess what I would say about it is I think that it's a very complex and nuanced and I honestly think that we don't really know. I think sometimes we claim that we know. I think that it is a family disease, but I think it's also a family disease from just nurture and generational trauma. So I'm personally, as a trauma therapist, I and what we know now about the brain research on trauma and generational trauma specifically, that we know that that gets passed down through the mother, into the womb even, and then in in our DNA. So so, yes, an addiction gene, like we can name it. No, I don't. I don't think that they've discovered that. I don't know that they will. I think what we mean by saying it's genetic is it is a part of our DNA composure, mostly from yeah, and I agree with all that.

Speaker 2:

And I, you know, I look back in my family history. Both of my parents came from families that had alcoholism in it, you know. So I feel like, if nothing else behaviorally, I'm predisposed to it socially, but, you know, I do feel like there is, you know, probably a link physiologically. So, however, despite that, again, you know, I started drinking and at first it started out very slow. It built throughout my forties until I feel like I tipped the scales and became a full blown alcoholic, had to get a treatment. Now I want to back up and say a little bit so early on I had some good self-help skills, self-care skills, but as I was having kids and in my 30s, I found that and I think this is real common, and that's one of the reasons why I love the topic of your, the concept of your podcast, because it's about women and moms, because personally, I felt like in my 30s, when I was pregnant, having children, trying to manage a career, that I really struggled and that also fueled my feelings of poor self-esteem. It triggered all those childhood issues of feeling like I was never going to be good enough, I could never get enough stuff done, and that fueled the drinking. I'm not explaining the drinking, but I just want to point that out because I think I'm not the only one. I think there's a lot of women out there who struggle with balancing home life, family life and taking care of themselves. That's one of the reasons why. You know, drink is a quick fix to all of that. It is a quick way to reduce stress and distract from the drudgery at times or the stress at times.

Speaker 2:

But my drinking advanced. I felt a lot of guilt and shame towards the end of my drinking because of being a social worker. At that point in my life I was not working actively in the professionally the social work field. I was involved in more volunteer activities. So I didn't have any real people judging me or looking at you know, accountability in that respect.

Speaker 2:

But I put that on myself. I mean the guilt and shame I had about because one of my motivations for going into social work was to help break the generational cycles of trauma. I mean I told myself early on I'm not going to do to my kids what my parents did to me. I'm not going to put them in that same situation. You know, and I absolutely did towards the end of my drinking and then the big part of my story. The part that I'm most passionate sharing about, is that even in early recovery, when I was working on my recovery really hard, I was still hurting my relationships with my family because I, in a very fundamental way, you could say, transferred my addiction from alcohol to recovery. I put so much time and energy into recovery that I distanced myself from my family and my kids and I didn't you know they were just as confused by my lack of presence and my emotional distance from this new sober, janice, as they were by the drinking Janice, and that caused a lot of problems.

Speaker 1:

And that caused a lot of problems. So when you say you became addicted to your recovery, what were you using, like a program or a course or some kind of what?

Speaker 2:

how did you? Okay, yeah, great, and I know that you talked about AA and you have a pretty positive attitude towards it, right, I don't want to put words in your mouth, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I, I went to put words in your mouth, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I, um, I went to an inpatient treatment program. It was really kind of 12 step based, but it is a professional program, but it does have that fundamental like. This is a great support system. We want you to get connected with this. It's a great relapse prevention tool.

Speaker 2:

Um, and the programs I had been working with as a young person were 12-step based and I had been involved in Al-Anon and ACA when I first graduated college and was working in the field, so I was very familiar with all of that and I embraced that. So I went to treatment thinking that I was going to go for four weeks, the typical general treatment program. But when I got there, I and the treatment program was about four hours away from my home four and a half hours so it made it hard for my family to get involved in my treatment program. But when I got there and really started embracing treatment and opening up and disclosing things I'd never talked about before, some grief, some childhood sexual abuse, an adult sexual assault I ended up staying, extending my stay from four weeks to 12 weeks, and while I was really working on myself and embracing that, I wasn't working on the family issues at home and emotionally I was distancing myself from them and I know one of my core childhood issues is fear of abandonment and rejection. And being that I had invested so much time and energy in my 30s reinforcing my identity and self-esteem as a mom, now it's been taken away from me, I projected my fear of rejection from others onto my kids and I kind of built a wall between me and my family so that by the time I finished treatment I shared this last week by the time I finished treatment there was some really angry, hostile feelings from a couple members of my family who let me back up, the treatment center was very individual, focused and offered a family program, but that was not the primary and not an offer to family program, but that was not the primary. Families were not involved very much and because of them being so far, it was not easy for them to get involved in any kind of family treatment. So their interactions with my counselors and stuff was kind of conflictual, to put it in a nice way, and by the time I was ending that you know the last of that treatment. They're like we don't, we think you should go to a halfway house, we think that your home life is not going to be conducive to staying sober. So during the next so I went from treatment to a halfway house.

Speaker 2:

Now, the good part about this, the thing I'm passionate about, is that. So I had 12 weeks of inpatient treatment. I did three or four months in a halfway house and then another year and like a three quarter way sober living house, which has given me a phenomenal foundation for my sobriety. No judgment against anyone who has relapsed, but I feel like that's probably the number one reasons why I've endured a lot of losses in sobriety without relapsing. Does that make sense? So the good part of all of that is that I got a really good foundation to my sobriety.

Speaker 2:

The bad part of that is that for the first six months, I distanced myself from my kids and my family and we made no progress on our relationship.

Speaker 2:

And if you were talking to my daughter I don't want to put words in her mouth, but she's the most vocal about it, she'll say that it was just as bad as, like the last few years of my drinking.

Speaker 2:

So, to make a long story short, when I finally woke up, got to the other side of that and saw that I had repeated the same patterns that I had helped people with 30 years before, when I was a family therapist and inpatient treatment, and that the woman I lived with at the halfway house and my sober living, my peers and several, a lot of us had this distance between our family members, I mean, and to this day some of them still haven't repaired some of their relationships.

Speaker 2:

So when I got to the other side of that, the first thing I did was work on my family, on those relationships, and try to repair them and rebuild them, because it was heartbreaking, you know I, it's heartbreaking. Early sobriety is rough enough and then to be like your family, to not want to be with you, is painful. So I started taking this risk fear of rejection, getting used to rejection, making mistakes, going back to the books, because I'm a student at heart, a student and teacher heart, which, again, that's the crazy thing here I am. I know this stuff but it's tough to apply it to yourself. That's the crazy thing.

Speaker 1:

Here I am.

Speaker 2:

I know this stuff but it's tough to apply it to yourself. So but it, since when you went to treatment, they ranged from 13 to 21.

Speaker 1:

So eighth grade, 10th grade and two kids in college, critical time really in that adolescence period, there's a lot going on. Anyway. They had known you as, like this kind of drinking mom, like addiction lifestyle, um, and then you went to treatment. I don't want, I don't want to you to say any more than you are comfortable with completely. I'm curious if there's a way, in a general way or whatever you want, if you could just just very quickly share a little bit more about what they were saying to you when you were behaving like. What were they? What were the issues with you from them, your treatment, why were they? Why did they not want to be close to you?

Speaker 2:

You know, essentially I was still abandoning them. I was still emotionally unavailable, still abandoning them. I was still emotionally unavailable. Okay, to go back to some of my core issues. Growing up in my family my role was the mascot, the cute one, the superficial. Make everyone happy. Instead, those early interactions in the first few months of my kids were all me being superficial and like I think we had at the most, two visits in those 12 weeks to my treatment at my treatment center and halfway through one of them because I was like, oh, talking about the treatment facility, I was talking about the weather, I talked about this big storm we had where the power had been out for a couple of days and like halfway through this visit, my daughter like stops, everything is like I don't care about this stuff. I want to know how you are doing. Are you making changes?

Speaker 1:

You know and Okay, so let me see if I'm getting this. So I'm just trying to get I was just trying to get a little bit of a deeper understanding because it's pertinent and really, I think, relatable probably to our listeners. So when they visited you which I get, it was a little far away so you didn't have visits. I assume, maybe at phone calls or something, when they did that, you were only talking about yourself.

Speaker 2:

Right right.

Speaker 1:

They were. They were picking up from you that you weren't like asking how was school or what's going on at home, or you know, how's the doll like, whatever, how's your friend? That you weren't asking them or engaging them about things about their life.

Speaker 2:

Well, I was engaging a little bit, but on a superficial level, not really asking about how they're doing, and I do think that our family fell into that where they were embarrassed and didn't. They felt really isolated and alone because they couldn't share with their friends and family you know, I mean their friends and schoolmates about what was going on. So I felt like they were looking for more when they came to see me and I was so fearful that I couldn't offer any real in-depth authenticity. I was fake. I was still acting fake in front of them and my daughter called me out on it. That's the best way to put it.

Speaker 1:

So it sounds like they were looking for or, from what you know, they were looking for a little bit more of an emotional connection from you, meaning like they were looking for you to care about their feelings and like how you affected them.

Speaker 2:

Okay and to start the apology process and ask them about what they were feeling. And frankly, at that time I was still well, I was. I was still too afraid of what they might tell me. I mean, I started treatment thinking what I did wasn't that bad, not recognizing what had happened during blackouts or that their impression of what was that bad is very valid.

Speaker 1:

Right. Well, that's the reason why I think it sounds like you use the 12 step program to be sober. Is that? Is that true or not?

Speaker 2:

Yes, I definitely used it to be sober.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So I mean there's a reason why the steps are numbered for a reason. I mean there's a reason why they're numbered for like, because when you're one month sober, or 12 weeks, or six months even, or you sometimes like, you're not prepared, um, emotionally or with the correct mindset to go to anybody with any kind of amends. Now sometimes we can do sort of like an initial one, like, oh my gosh, I'm just like, I'm just like so sorry, how, like how this is going. But to do it like a formal, like I'm from the bottom of my heart recognizing my part in this situation, like we're not prepared to do that for a long time. It needs to be a lot of work, and so I think, but I think our family members are looking for something right. They want to hear at least a little bit of something. I want to hear some accountability.

Speaker 1:

Usually, whatever we can offer at that time is the best we can do at that time. So, like to give some grace to you and to any of us who have done this journey. You know, when you're at that point you can only give what you got right. So you're trying to say to them like look, I totally get it. Like this must suck, for you like to not have your mom at home. You know like that, like that's all you can do at that time, you know. And then, and also young people don't understand that either, because they're developing brains, you know, like they're also not emotionally mature enough to like sort of understand and they also, by nature and developmental stage, completely self-centered. Right, you know what I mean. So it's an interesting dynamic that you had there with dealing with people who are naturally completely self-centered, somebody who was also naturally completely self-centered because of addiction right, trying to heal and get right. It just seemed like a perfect storm.

Speaker 2:

Maybe you know it is, it really is. I just really tried to assume as much responsibility for my part as possible, you know, because I believe and looking back now and in the research and interviews I've done, I think there's ways we could have improved upon it. You know things that could have made it better, which is what kind of became my mission early on. So in early sobriety I volunteer and go back to my treatment facility and I was always like please reach out to your kids, even if it's just a letter, make those calls, you know, just trying to plant that seed that we need to give our family members hope that we it's not going to be a quick switch, we're not going to flip a switch and be normal again and be that mom that we were.

Speaker 2:

Because for the first 10 years of my you know I have two kids, a break in two kids, and the older two kids will say, you know they live with me for 10 years without drinking, when I was in my like super overachieving mom status, you know, volunteer queen and part-time social worker, and so they reflect back on that I was like you were a good mom once. But so they did have some experience with healthy parenting and whereas the younger two did not, the younger two just always knew me drinking. Different experiences which is another big point that I try to press is each child's different and, as you mentioned, different developmental stages. That 13-year-old was at a pivotal point in his life. Going from eighth grade to ninth grade, changes going on in his body, g eighth grade to ninth grade, changes going on. His body grew like six inches the year that I was away and my oldest child was graduating college and trying to navigate real life, you know.

Speaker 1:

So they were it's a lot to manage. Um, I mean, obviously you have four children and that's already just kind of a lot and just you know to manage. Just you know parenting them, all of the things paying for them, and then you throw in just you know the significantly different developmental stages and it's just a lot to manage. You know, and when you're not well, when you're not your best self, you know, if you're living in active addiction, it's going to be really difficult to kind of meet all of those people at their level of need at any given time. It doesn't mean that you're not like doing a good job or you're not a good mom. It just means that, wow, like this is just a challenge. And then you throw on your own challenge, which was, you know, is significant.

Speaker 1:

Plus you I think you were you're married at the time right, right, right Marriage. You know anything else. You, if you're working, if you have parents or family members who need your help or God forbid you have like friends or a life. I mean there's just like a lot going on. So we're never doing anything in a bubble, like we're not ever just doing parenting like one thing. You know all of this other stuff going on and I think, as women kind of as you alluded to before, you know, we do take on, just naturally, many of us do take on like a lot of the burden of that as the primary caregivers and then again like layering on all those other things. And so, yes, when we aren't well, you know, I don't care what kind of self-care you have in place. If you're not emotionally well, spiritually fit, if you haven't done your own therapy, if you're still having negative beliefs, kind of like running in the background constantly, you're not, it's going to be very difficult for you to manage those things period, let alone do it really well.

Speaker 2:

Right, right, it's a balance. It's really really a tough balance to balance your and that's where I say, like you know, I felt like I invested all my energy into my recovery and not enough of a balance back into the family.

Speaker 1:

So I would love for you to say more about that part. Okay, so I would specifically love to hear a little bit cause I so the experience that I had personally in the and where I love to meet women along the road. What I hear from most of my guests is you know, early sobriety we all kind of know is very challenging and it has its own, I would say about, like special needs. Right, it's a sort of section where you're just going through so much. You're going through a lot of physical change. You're like you might have like family problems, there might be legal issues that are going on, trauma like, and so you're just trying to learn how to live life. You know, without drinking on trauma like, and so you're just trying to learn how to live life you know without drinking right, help you. And that is very difficult and usually does last six to twelve months some, and then often more.

Speaker 1:

But after that first year I find and many of the people I talk to that you kind of, we kind of have this um like an awakening happen, right, you, oh, wow, I feel really good.

Speaker 1:

You know, like you, we are sober as we're ever going to be a physically um, we generally can um, have solved some problems, we feel better, we're starting to get in a little, and then the world kind of opens up to us like, oh, wow, like I, I can do, I could have dreams, I can like write a book, I could.

Speaker 1:

I've always wanted to start a business or do whatever, and we have opportunities now that just didn't seem possible or accessible to us. So then that starts to come in Right, and then also this other piece around as we continue through that kind of rebuilding the relationships in our life, which is kind of like your main focus in your, in your work, and then also the biggest part of your story, right, right, you can think about like kind of that, like after that first year period, but like in that like two to five and beyond years when you were working a recovery program and kind of doing things like what are you? That was still happening, if you felt like you were too much involved with your recovery, not enough involved with your family? And, and if so, like in that time range, what, what did? What do you mean? Like, can you paint the picture for us?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, well, and I would say like about six months sober, that's when I kind of woke up and went oh my God, I've alienated my, I've continued to alienate my family. So I started I mean I was living away from home, so I started going home more often, making phone calls instead of letters, things like that. I think the most important thing that we do to help repair relationships, which no one really sees at first, is that we have to stay sober or be working on our recovery. So during that time I mean I still work on my recovery very diligently. I have lost too many friends and seen too many friends relapse without when you get complacent or overly confident. So during that first period I really continued to work on the program, but I made more of an effort to include them, invite them. They thankfully my ex-husband was great and got them into some therapy, you know, as soon as I went to treatment which was helpful, but I just started talking to them more, telling them more, I made a few mistakes and I would sometimes overshare or make the expectation like they'd be excited as excited for me, like you want to come to my one year chip ceremony. They'd be like no, and so I would have to and I took it to therapy too. I'd have to realize that's not personal, it's not them not supporting me, it's they need more time. You know they're still not trusting.

Speaker 2:

So what I did was work on my program, work on my internal struggles I had avoided working on, went back to working on my ACA, my childhood issues with my therapist and started taking risks and involving them. I did do some family therapy with my kids, with their therapist, but I I think you need here's one of my philosophies that could be controversial it's hard to do family therapy with the therapist who's seeing your child individually or your husband individually. I feel pretty strongly you need an objective third therapist or coach. I don't know how you feel about that, but so we did some family therapy. It wasn't really successful, but we just kept trying and I got involved. I learned to listen to them more.

Speaker 2:

One of my favorite stories is in one of my first signs that my kids were making a step towards me was when my child, who was my middle, my third child, middle son asked me and this is like a year, year and a half into sobriety if I would take him on his college trip to worse, and this is a simple thing. But it's all these little things that help build relationships. So I I mean I literally talked to my sponsor, my therapist, like I'm going to be in this car and sharing a hotel room with this kid for two, maybe three days. That's a challenge, you know, for a lot of people, even the best of situations. So I got coaching and support and help and advice from my peers Because, again, even though you're been the therapist, you don't always take your own medicine.

Speaker 2:

So I practiced every skill I could, I took advantage of those little moments and and that went a long way. I mean I learned to sit quietly for hours at a time, not ramble, not talk too much about myself, gently ask questions, take advantage of those little moments where you go. You know I wish you'd been at that soccer game where I scored three goals, you know, for me to be able to go yeah, I wish I'd been there too and offer a little apology or a little amends. It came organically. So it's kind of hard to explain, like, what I did, because it was taking advantage of those little moms, especially with boys. My social work hat goes. Mothers and boys talk differently than mothers and daughters, and maybe that's sexist, but I do think there's different ways to interact with boys, to get them to talk more and more active and, yeah, that's a whole nother ballgame. I hope there's some wisdom in that.

Speaker 1:

So thank you so much for sharing again about. I know it's hard sometimes when we get like into the nitty gritty, personal, and that's why I don't know, I feel uncomfortable. But sometimes it's helpful, just even in a general way, to have other people share these personal parts in like a general way so that they can be like oh okay, I can see how, how that this is happening in my, in my house, or like, and just so some of the things that you said too that were super that stand out to me is like you were persistent, like you guys just didn't give up and kept trying.

Speaker 1:

oh, you tried the family therapy. Yes, family therapy is extremely difficult. It's very difficult to sit in the room with everybody and have people saying mean things or telling their truth and you have to take it and it's very painful at times. Or having the therapist say like, hey, why don't you try to do this? Or you need to be doing this and you're like, oh, you know, sometimes we have that little tantrum. I don't want to do that.

Speaker 2:

I'm the mom.

Speaker 1:

So there's a lot of like kind of breaking down of some of that stuff that happens in that process. But what I liked and what I heard was was persistence, like you didn't give up. And so I think when, when families are like that, and especially in parenting or in or any relationship, when you're just when, you're just committed to the thing, when you're committed to the thing, like even in marriage, you know, like you said, x, so I guess you're not, you're not, you didn't you're not married, but you know, you know how it is, though, like it's very, very challenging and it's like sometimes the easier, softer way does feel like let's just end this, but but when you, but when you have a couple, that's that is saying okay, well, we really both like each other, love each other.

Speaker 1:

Somehow we love each other, at one point we have these kids we want, we're committed, we have zero clue how to do it. We're not doing well, like, and then they get the help, but then they just keep trying different things. You know, just don't give up. I mean those are the things. Just like business ownership, right? I mean entrepreneurship, like what do they say? I think seven to 10 years for sometimes things to take off. So like, the ones that are successful in certain areas of entrepreneurship are the only they're only that way because they didn't give up.

Speaker 1:

They're just trying, because everybody else along the path was like, well, it's been four years and I haven't been successful. So that's what I heard you say, that with your kids, and I, and I love that, I think that's the message. And then the other thing that I heard you say too, was just two things, was just listening, just like taking an active approach to listening. I think one of the things with parenting young people, especially my kids, are 21, 20, and 17. So, like we're right in the thick of it. But even before this, you know, is really just learning, and having a being a therapist does help a lot, um, and also a recovery background, but we're still parent, like I'm still the mom and I'm also human, um but, I think learning how to just listen and receive what they're saying, even when it's the most wild thing you've ever heard in your life, is one of the best skills in parenting.

Speaker 1:

Like not reacting to, like the thing that they say and you're just like, oh my gosh, like I mean, I've had that moment where I was standing in the kitchen one of my kids said something and I was just like wow, like that's not how you were raised at all, like, like, how could? And I just had to kind of listen and like, okay, oh, you know you think that, oh, okay, because what is the reaction going to do? All of I go crazy and I have a big well, how could you say that? You know, like all she's going to hear is oh, okay, it's not okay for me to talk like that. It's not okay for me to bring things like that up to mom because she's going to freak out. It's not okay for me to be honest about how I'm feeling right now because there's going to be a big reaction or consequence. So, like you were sharing that. And then the last part was the validation piece that you were able to like, really validate, and that's what I always say in my work and probably yours too Like most people in life really just want to be heard, seen and validated.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, any humans ever really want. Most of us, that's all therapy is. Listen, hearing them and then just literally validate like totally get it. Like man, that sucks. You know, sometimes people have no one in their life that can do that for them, or has ever. You know. Someone shows up like a mom and you're like, yeah, I, that sucks that I missed that game. You're right, I totally wish I was there.

Speaker 2:

I that sucks, that I missed that game.

Speaker 1:

You're right. I totally wish I was there too. That's all they want to hear.

Speaker 2:

It's very repairing it is. I agree. I think validation and good listening skills is is crucial.

Speaker 1:

So when you're working with people now in your practice, I know that's what pretty much your specialty. Just to kind of end with some really good stuff here, like when you work with your clients and they come to you on some of the family stuff, like what are some of like the top three things, like where do you? Start when someone's like in, like they're, they're past the early recovery stuff. We're not doing that, Like they're in family but, they're like having crisis or relationship issues.

Speaker 1:

Where do you start with them? Like, just give us some of like the top things that maybe we could walk away right now and start using in our own lives.

Speaker 2:

Well, I think accountability is huge, you know, taking ownership, validating another person's opinion and values impression, because myself and my child could have an you know experience, the same exact event and perceive it differently, and it may be something I'm easy to brush off, but for them it's heartbreaking. So I have to validate their experience. Being a good listener, I think, because I'm not in private practice right now, I'm really just speaking and talking and working with other practitioners and trying to increase awareness about how family treatment can be involved. Families can be involved in treatment earlier. So I think it's also just those early steps of communication and a little bit like we will get there, inspiring some hope, yeah, and not to give up.

Speaker 2:

That's crucial. I mean, it breaks my heart and this happens at least once a month where I'm in a meeting and someone's you know shares that they haven't talked to their four years, five years, six years, sober, but haven't talked to their family members for 10 years. And you know I, if it's a family worth reengaging, I want to help people heal that loss or try and address it. Find the balance. So balance oh my God, that's probably my key message is balance. You've got to have balance in all aspects of your recovery social, physical, spiritual, emotional, mental. And I think don't you have like four tenants in your practice too? Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I have, like the pillars of my work, which my work with people too, and but what I think, what you said is so important and it really just kind of lays out the essentials, right, the essentials of good relation, good healthy relationships and, um, I think if we could all kind of grab onto those and explore them a little bit individually and then with our people, uh, it would really make the world a whole different place, right, because, yeah, you learn to create space for just people's differences, or you know people like create space for people's ways of viewing the world, or you know, and not have to be right or not have to make it right. You know, like that's a huge part of our societal, I think, problems these days and what causes a lot of conflict is people really get latched on to like, well, but I was right and I'm like, well, I mean who? I mean maybe you were right for you and that, and that's fine. Like you believe that, but that other person doesn't, and so that can destroy relationships right there, like we watched it happen, I think, in our society, and it's a shame because it just doesn't have to.

Speaker 1:

You know, and I think also part of it is like especially in parenting this shows up, but also in all of these areas, you know, if you have a child that maybe isn't completely aligned with, like the way you think or your values which is, by the way, their job, right, their job is to invite, you know from us and take what they want and leave the rest and then discover their own values that are separate from their parents, that's the task of adolescence, right?

Speaker 1:

So then they're in adulthood thinking like, oh, even though my parents were, they really valued, um, education, like they just, you know, they put all their time and money in education. You know, I appreciate that. But I really value, like, just adventure. You know, I'm kind of into, like travel, I want to discover stuff, I'm a creative, you know. But if that's, if you have that kind of unalignment, it doesn't make one bad or wrong, it's just different. And so I think, as the parent, being able to say like, oh, oh, my gosh, that's, like, that's so cool, I can't really relate to that, like, I don't get it you know cause?

Speaker 1:

I just don't get why you would want to do this or be able to like see it and then not have the need and desire to like want to convince them to come your way. I think that is the maturity part of healthy relationships right. It's our job to convince anybody of anything. Yeah, I agree. I thank you so much for your time. I know you wrote a book. Maybe you could share the title or to get it. How do people get ahold of you and find you if they want to reach?

Speaker 2:

out Okay. So the book is called Rebuilding Relationships in Recovery. It's available everywhere. It's under my name, janice V Johnson Dowd. I have a website, janicejohnsondowdcom, and my Instagram. My main Instagram site is parenting underscore the word I-N-N underscore recovery. It's not just parenting on there, too, because it's also a lot of recovery information, motivational, inspirational. But I really enjoy it.

Speaker 2:

And probably the other thing I want to say is let's expand the recovery community. I think it's really important that might be one of the messages I missed a second ago is that this disease can be very isolating. Families can feel very isolated. You know, let's reach out, because I feel stronger when I surround myself with people with similar needs and interest and support.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I get, I totally. That's a whole nother episode that we can see. I'm on and I and I agree and you know, I don't think anybody you talk to now is is connected to the recovery community in some way. You either are one, you're married to one, you were raised by one, you're raising one, no matter where you are or where you live, you're exposed to it. And so I agree, like when we spread our message of hope, when we talk about real things and about emotional maturity, we do expand our recovery community into the little pockets of society that really need to hear that, you know, and that really need to hear how to build those healthy relationships, how to re-bridge the gaps right.

Speaker 1:

And even though there's so much hurt there you know there's hurt and pain and struggle there is opportunity for repair. You know if people hurt and pain and struggle, there is opportunity for repair. You know if, if people are willing to do that. No, obviously there are some situations that are, just, you know, very toxic and tragic and completely abusive and not acceptable.

Speaker 1:

Right right, but most I would say most people are not in that category. Anyway, well, thank you for your time, thank you for your details and I'll make sure I link them to the show notes below, and I hope you have a fantastic day.

Speaker 2:

Same to you have a great day.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for joining me for this week's episode of Confident Sober Women. If you enjoyed this conversation, hit the subscribe button above so you won't miss any upcoming episodes. And, hey, if you really loved it, leave me a review. You can learn more about the sober freedom inner circle membership at wwwshelbyjohncoachingcom. Forward slash inner circle. See you next time.