Confident Sober Women

Breaking Free: Modern Sobriety Paths That Lead To Self-Actualization

• Shelby • Episode 201

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In this insightful conversation, Shelby welcomes Amanda Kuda, author of "Unbottled Potential," to discuss different pathways to sobriety and the importance of finding what resonates with you personally.

Amanda shares her journey to sobriety, which began when she realized her weekend drinking habits were counteracting her weekday personal development work. Despite not hitting "rock bottom" or fitting traditional addiction narratives, she recognized alcohol was preventing her from becoming her most authentic self.


Key Takeaways:

  • Amanda's approach to sobriety came from a spiritual angle, studying influencers like Wayne Dyer, Marianne Williamson, and Gabby Bernstein
  • Both women discuss how there are multiple valid paths to recovery beyond the 12-step model
  • The skills of emotional regulation and sitting with discomfort are essential for long-term sobriety
  • Journaling prompt: "Wait, what am I thinking?" can help process emotions that might trigger drinking
  • Learning to name your emotions and accept all feelings as valid helps reduce emotional volatility

Amanda emphasizes that you don't need to have a "drinking problem" for alcohol to be a problem in your life. If it's preventing you from being your most authentic self, that's reason enough to question your relationship with it.

Shelby highlights how recent research, including the 2025 Surgeon General's report, confirms that no amount of alcohol is safe for consumption, supporting the decision to live alcohol-free regardless of where you fall on the spectrum of use.

This conversation powerfully illustrates that recovery doesn't always fit into prescribed models - what matters most is finding an approach that resonates with you and leads to a better life.


Connect with Amanda Kuda:

Are you ready to explore your relationship with alcohol from a fresh perspective? This episode offers compassionate insights for anyone questioning their drinking habits, regardless of where you are on your journey.

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Oh, and by the way, if you didn’t know, my remote Neurofeedback Therapy program is up and running. Learn more here!

If you aren't part of the Confident Sober Women Facebook group, it's a great place to be. There are over a thousand other sober women there building lives they don't want to escape from. Come on over and join us.

And if you haven't read my memoir, grab a copy today and maybe a second one for a friend. There is so much hope in recovery, and I shared my story so raw and vulnerable so that others would know they aren't alone and that there is a way to live well, manage relationships, parent your kids, and have a healthy body, all while staying sober. Grab a copy of Recovering in Recovery: The Life-Changing Joy of Sobriety wherever books are sold.

Speaker 1:

Well, hey there, sober ladies. Thank you so much for joining me today for the Confident Sober Women podcast. Today I got to spend time with my friend, Amanda Kuda. She is an alcohol-free lifestyle expert and truly a breath of fresh air. Her energy is so positive and just filled with light, so I know you're going to really love her as well. She is the author of Unbottled Potential Break Up With Alcohol and Break Through to your Best Life, and that's exactly what we talked about in this conversation.

Speaker 1:

Kind of all things, sobriety, in whatever form, works for you. We talked a lot about how the modern day recovery era has brought to light different ways and different language for getting sober and really how important it is for each one of us to find what works for us. So maybe you've had experiences where you tried something or a program or a system or a book and you know just didn't really like it or it didn't resonate with you, and then you know maybe try something else and it really did. And that's the beauty of where we are today there's just so many options available to us. So we really got into some of the nitty gritty around that and also some really practical tools for developing emotional sobriety. So, really, a couple tips that you can put into place today, right now, to really help you on your own personal, to really help you on your own personal actualization journey, which is what Amanda is a specialist at. So I want you to grab your big glass of water or your favorite mocktail and enjoy the conversation with Amanda Kuda.

Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to the Confident Sober Women podcast. I'm your guide, Shelby John. I'm the mother of three, wife to one and sober since July 1st 2002. As sober women, we have something huge in common and when we share our lives and our stories with each other, we feel that sense of belonging and connection. So we know we are no longer alone.

Speaker 1:

In this podcast, you will hear real life talk about building confidence and transforming your life beyond recovery. So come on, let's talk. Hey, it's me, Shelby. Have you ever wondered what's really happening in your brain during recovery? Are you ready to take control of your anxiety, sleep better and finally feel focused and confident?

Speaker 1:

I want to introduce you to a game changer that's transforming women's recovery remote neurofeedback therapy. I want you to think of this as a personal trainer for your brain. It's helping you build new neuropathways right from the comfort of your own home. So if you're dealing with anxiety that just won't quit, if you have ADHD that's making life chaotic, or sleep issues that leave you exhausted, neurofeedback could be your missing piece. It's science-backed brain training that works with your natural healing process, helping you regulate emotions and build lasting confidence. The best part is, you don't need to add another appointment to your busy schedule. My remote neurofeedback program brings professional guidance and support right to your living room. Do you want to learn more about neurofeedback therapy? Brings professional guidance and support right to your living room. Do you want to learn more about neurofeedback therapy?

Speaker 1:

You can go to my website wwwshelbyjohncom to download my free guide. Is Neurofeedback Right For you? Together, we'll create the calm, confident future you that you deserve. That's wwwshelbyjohncom. Take the first step towards training your brain for lasting change. Well, hey there, amanda, I'm so excited to hear you and your story, and you're with my own, so I'm going to turn the mic over to you. Awesome.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much, shelby. I'm so to turn the mic over to you, dory Awesome. Thank you so much, shelby. I'm so excited to have a conversation with you today and share the conversation with anyone who's listening. You know, I know that you wanted to kind of just get some.

Speaker 2:

Have me share a little bit about my story, my journey to sobriety, and I'll kind of hit on some of the high notes but start with saying that I don't think there was really anything super extraordinary about my relationship with alcohol and with my drinking journey. You know, I started drinking in my late teens as a way to be cool and fit in and really kind of help with some social anxieties and some feelings that I didn't belong much like a lot of people and that carried into my young adulthood and in my lates in fact it was on my 28th birthday I ended up getting an appointment with this kind of medicine man, body worker, healer, that was really coveted in the Midwestern town where I grew up or where I went to college, rather, and this individual changed my life. Not only physically was he just amazing at helping me with some pain that I was in, but he started to introduce me to some spiritual philosophies and concepts that I'd never heard of before because I was living in the Bible belt. So everything in terms of personal development and growth was very, very, very traditional religion orientation, which there's nothing wrong with. I just personally didn't resonate with it. It felt a little limiting and a little just a little stifling for me. And so he started introducing me to these self-help concepts and at the time I was living a pretty good checking the boxes, you know master's degree, great job for a very sought after company, bought a house, had the social life, had you know all of the things that should have rendered me very happy and feeling successful. But I just felt kind of blah, like something was off track and that did not feel good.

Speaker 2:

For all of the work I had done, it didn't feel good to feel off track, and so to have this individual present to me this way to feel better, that seemed very natural and very easeful. I latched onto it so quickly and so I went home and started downloading, you know, all of these self-help and spirituality books on my Kindle. I started watching binge, watching Oprah's Super Soul Sunday. That was really kind of like the what's what of personal development at the time and I started what I thought, shelby, was devoting myself to a personal development practice.

Speaker 2:

But what I didn't quite conceptualize was that for every hour I spent Monday through Friday being mindful was a counterproductive weekend Friday at 5.30 PM through whatever time it's Sunday afternoon evening being mindless. So I really went for that work hard, play hard kind of thing that we're taught is exactly acceptable, very balanced, and I was just partying and hanging out with my friends and socializing and cutting loose and relaxing all weekend and it took me, to be honest, three years of doing this kind of cycle before I realized something feels off. This personal development stuff feels good but it's not really clicking and I wonder why. I wonder why that is. And so I really put my mind to it and I couldn't come up with any other reason other than maybe it's something counterproductive you're doing.

Speaker 2:

And the only counterproductive thing that I could think of was drinking alcohol, and I really didn't want that to be the answer, because I didn't have a problem. I was a normal drinker and I was a social drinker and that was a really big part of my identity. And I wondered who would I become if I didn't drink? And the answer is that I became the absolute best, most self-actualized, most authentic version of myself, when I finally got brave enough to say you know what? I have, to eliminate something from my life that's a negative habit, rather than trying to add in all these positive habits. And the negative habit was alcohol. And my life has never been the same and I'm sure we'll talk about that a little bit more. But that's the long story, less long.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love that. Thank you so much for sharing all that, and I think that it's such a beautiful opportunity that you were given to come to those terms on your own.

Speaker 1:

You know I think so many times. You know, I know I talked to a lot of people in this case I've been sober kind of a long time and maybe you have along the way too, that you know we don't people who haven't had you know sort of choice and drink, but then they were definitely didn't really have much choice in recovery either, right, so they were either like voluntold or given you know a slip or landed in a jail cell. So you know, I think it's it's I think both the privilege and also it can be a disservice. I think at times when you come to this realization kind of on your own I don't know if you know what I mean by when I say that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah no, absolutely, because my my struggle with coming to it.

Speaker 2:

You know I have addiction in my family, so I've seen firsthand, you know, my father and then one of my stepmothers really really be powerless over alcohol and really understand how awful and difficult that is.

Speaker 2:

And so I went into my relationship with alcohol knowing a couple of things If I never get that bad, as bad as my step-mom was, then I'm okay.

Speaker 2:

And also knowing that if, and also having the sense of if you never get that bad, then you should just keep on drinking. And so when I started to kind of question my drinking, I had this like mental struggle of, well, I'm not at rock bottom, I'm not powerless over alcohol like she was, so shouldn't I just be able to figure it out? And it was this you know, this strange, this strange lie, basically that I was telling myself that I almost wasn't allowed to quit drinking because I wasn't that bad. And I have real heart for anyone who chooses the path, whether almost by force and necessity or by just their pure own free will decision to quit drinking, because it's not easy, no matter which way you approach it. There are definitely more paths, some paths that are more difficult than others, but there's still so much stigma around alcohol and sobriety that it is a difficult path to pursue, no matter which way you pursue it.

Speaker 1:

It? Yeah, it certainly can be, depending on what community you live in or kind of what is the surrounding kind of values of your, of your family or the people around you. But I'm curious. I'm curious now that you've been a little time away, I don't know exactly.

Speaker 1:

Eight years, yeah, that you've been some time away now and that's that's kind of a long time. Do you still feel that? Do you still feel a connection to the beliefs that you had about your drinking then, like that you weren't powerless or that you didn't really have, you know, like a quote unquote problem or anything like that? Do you still connect with that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I do. I mean, I I think that there were times where my drinking was very binge drinking and definitely wasn't healthy, but it wasn't abnormal from what, what, what anyone else was doing, and it didn't in terms of a psychiatric scale, did not rate on the scale of. I mean, I sit with my therapist and I said, hey, here's what's going on and what do you think and I think this is something that is also kind of challenging and confronting that, you know, in our medical system, especially at that point that was 10 years ago, eight years ago, when I quit, but 10 years ago when I was starting to have this question, you know, there's this, there's this. Oh well, you have to rate on this scale and if you don't, then you're doing okay. And so she just kind of shrugged it off as well. It wasn't to be manipulative or, you know, um bad in any way. She was just like nope, you don't have a problem, you know, maybe just drink a little less. And it didn't occur to her because she hadn't been taught that. Oh well, yeah, go ahead. If you feel like quit drinking, quitting drinking, do you think that's something that's affecting your life, give it a go. And so I think that, yes, I still very much relate to that and I think it's important to say because, absolutely could I have, if we look back and really got nitty gritty, could there be a way that we could say, well, yeah, if you're questioning it, then you do have a problem.

Speaker 2:

But the issue with that, shelby, is that doesn't resonate with some people. And if the path that I took resonated with me and got me to a different way, that's what I have to celebrate and choose. I understand that that would have not been productive for some individuals and that that could have actually been very destructive for them. You know for them to hear the message that I was feeling in my soul. So I try to be very open with you, know there's many paths to one destination and that you don't need to have a problem with alcohol for it to be a problem in your life. And if alcohol is in any way keeping you from being your most authentic, actualized self and it's, it is a problem. It doesn't mean you have to quote, unquote, qualify or meet some sort of specific label in my book. And again, if that resonates with you, like, choose whatever path works for you. But for me that actually kept me more stuck than anything.

Speaker 1:

I think that that is really true for a lot of people, particularly in the last, I would say, 10 years or so. I've been sober since 2002. So back then there was really nothing except for AA and treatment, and so that's what we used and it was fine, like it worked for me. But as we, you know, last, in the last, I think, eight to 10 years or so, it's been really interesting, especially being a woman who was kind of like raised in like 12 step model which was, which is completely fine, I totally embrace it and I think there's many good things and bad things, but that's what happened.

Speaker 1:

It's been very interesting to kind of to learn some new things, to start to really get to know some kind of different kinds of women, especially particularly women who are writing, you know, memoirs and um doing all kinds of research and sort of starting to use language like you know great area, drinking or super curious things like this. And you know at first for sure, I would, I have to say, like I was a little put off because I was kind of like oof, what is this? This doesn't feel like Like what you learned.

Speaker 1:

It doesn't feel like what I learned. Yeah, it feels in direct opposition to like what would be success in sort of getting sober, and so it's been an interesting journey. I still relate to all of the things, yeah, and what I've learned mostly I think about especially around being around so many different. I went to a sober in the city event, I guess that was. I think it was maybe two years ago, yeah, Last year, and it was so great Cause there was like a hundred plus women in this room, you know, I think some of them were probably similar to me, but many of most of them were not like as far as like the way they got there, when they, when they got sober, things like that, and so it was very it's been very interesting like learning that, hearing other people's stories and the way they do relate to things, and then really just becoming willing to accept and like, really embrace.

Speaker 1:

You know all paths to recovery, whatever it is, you know, and also that like you said you know all paths to recovery, whatever it is you know, and also that, like you said, you know if something doesn't feel aligned or relatable to you, it might prevent you from doing a thing. So what we know for sure for the research. Actually, in fact, I was just posting something before I got on with you, because this is April's, like mental health month, but there's this big report that came out from the surgeon general's office, the 2025 report. I don't know if you've seen it, with all of this alcohol and cancer, um, uh, research and data, yeah, it's pretty solid. I think we've known it for a long time. We're just confirming and confirming. So, anyway, the world health organization says you know, no amount of alcohol is safe for anybody. It's not a health food, it's, it's made from poison. Yeah, Like when we put all of these pieces together, it points. All errors point to no one should consume any alcohol.

Speaker 2:

Uh-huh truly.

Speaker 1:

And so when you put it in that perspective too, then it makes sense to say for the doctors even to say, yeah, like it's made from a poison, like you shouldn't consume it, yep.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. You know, I think that the the earlier on in my journey, when I was, I was really hesitant because, like I said, I did have experience watching someone experience very, very troublesome, heartbreaking addiction. And so there was this fine line between am I being disrespectful by sharing this approach? Am I, is there a chance that I could be harmful to people who, by sharing this approach, that worked for me. But then I also had to realize that there had to be other people like me who were hesitant to make a change because there wasn't an approach that resonated with them.

Speaker 2:

And trying to fit them into an existing approach just because it had been so successful for a lot of people wasn't necessarily the right thing to do. And I just felt really called in my journey to, you know, take an approach where I could share something a little bit different, and I feel like for me that was the right thing to do and that was in the highest integrity, because I know that I can help people who felt like me and that if I wouldn't have started having this conversation, that maybe they would still be on the same track that they were on, and that's the most important thing to me Right? And so I tried to be very sensitive and cognizant and also realize you can't make everyone happy. You're going to piss some people off and you're going to trigger some people and all I can do is be kind and generous when that happens and try to have an open conversation.

Speaker 1:

That's so true, yeah, I mean, I really think that's the, that's like a great message for all of us, right? You know people, whoever they are, wherever we are, it would be better and kinder and, I think, just more peaceful if we kind of just listened and respected where they were, on whatever topic, right, and then, yeah, kind of just realize that that's okay and like our way. If it's the complete opposite is also okay and for sure we can all kind of survive in this sort of world and community together, even with all those differing values and um, that makes a beautiful place filled with lots of diversity, and I think that's actually a big missing link right now. I'm hoping we can get back to that.

Speaker 2:

I think so. I think that there's been a lot of divisiveness and this way or that way, and I made a decision recently to and this is something that's evolved in my ability to have conversations and to take on different viewpoints. I didn't have that when I was a drinker. I was very, you know, victim mentality. Woe is me. This is the way, this is the right way, this is the wrong way and just having loving, open conversations with people, even when I don't fully understand, resonate, agree with.

Speaker 2:

I actually did an interview recently where I knew absolutely that I shared I didn't share some views with the other person and I almost decided to, I almost didn't accept the interview. And then I really sat with myself, shelby, and I thought you know, who are you as a self-actualized person If you can't sit down and have a really great conversation with someone who you don't have the same background and have a civil conversation where maybe you can help a lot of people who they have in their audience, who you wouldn't have reached otherwise. And I think that that's a really important, you know, piece of my actualization is to be able to be more open and accepting and loving toward myself and to other people, and I wasn't that before. I mean, it was somewhere deep down, but I just didn't know how to bring it out and I think that that's a piece of the self and spiritual development I've you know come to on my alcohol-free journey.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean, honestly, when you were talking, I just really kept thinking about just our previous conversation that, like you know, the principles that are laid out for us in the 12-step programs I'm sure you're familiar with, yeah. Yeah, in the 12-step programs, I'm sure you're familiar with some of them. Yeah, like a lot of that stuff. If you look at it and then you kind of unpack what it's really saying, what they're saying, right, the work is really the same. Well, it's mostly the same, no matter what you're doing or what you want to call yourself.

Speaker 1:

And that's the thing that I really resonate with, like you know, the work of, like looking at our negative thinking patterns the work of saying like, oh, wow, you know, we need to be tolerant of other people, so love and tolerance is our code, you know. And like, oh, you know, we do need to seek actualization or connection with something outside of ourselves, a higher power, and so, like, these concepts are all there, yeah, there's nothing new. There's nothing new, there's nothing new under the sun. And I think we do want to create something new. Some people do want to do that because they don't, they want to distance themselves so much from this one way. Yeah, so it's so different. But when you really look at it, I think it's just hilarious. So it kind of leads me to think, like what, what did you do? Like what was your way?

Speaker 2:

Yeah Well, and I think that's the interesting piece, because I will tell you, shelby, you know I tried to read some quit lit. I tried to explore. You know, I I was open to exploring different approaches, but if something felt not right in my gut I just said no, like I'm going to look at different, I'm going to look at something from a different perspective, and the funny thing is that, you know, in the self-help and spirituality place there is nothing new, like I have a shelves of books behind me that they're all you know about a similar concept written from a different perspective, with different life experiences, with slightly different nomenclature, so that it can reach the person who it's supposed to reach, right, and so I think that there's probably not that much difference in all of these different approaches. It's just that, you know, some have bigger followings or specific words that resonate with specific people, and for me, my approach was coming at it from a spiritual angle. So I was studying, like Wayne Dyer, marianne Williamson, a Course in Miracles, gabby Bernstein, really looking at things that felt good to me at the same point.

Speaker 2:

And if we were to look at I mean, even if you look at all religions and just took the names off of it. There's so much overlap, right, everyone's saying something quite similar, and so my approach was to kind of aggregate all of these different spiritual lessons that I was learning and help really internalize those and use those as a lens for my alcohol-free journey. But you're absolutely right, it's probably not that different. It's a different names, different, slightly different things, and I'm not. I'm certainly not saying that I've discovered something new. It's just that I put labels on it that resonated with me, or chose labels and patterns that resonated with me, and I think that's you know, the best we can do in with me, and I think that's you know the best we can do in um as we go through this world.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, exactly, I love that and it's it sounds like you, really just kind of I what I like about what you're saying too, is um that it feels like you were approaching it from a very energetic experience. So what was really?

Speaker 1:

you keep using the word what felt good to you, or the phrase what feels good to me what felt good to me at the time, and to me that's a very energetic experience, meaning you pick something up and you start and you're like, ooh, this, this, yeah, ooh, it resonates, I understand it. Or like, ooh, absolutely not, like this is not for me and I think that's just energy. We can call it energy, you can call it energy, you can call it God, you can call it the Holy Spirit, like a lot of things right, but yeah, but it's that energetic experience, that sort of your body, mind, like letting you know that this thing is for or not for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that for you, and I think what that's done is created multiple pathways lined with the same stuff, really, truly, like you're saying, I mean, we can pick up a whole bunch of different things, but really what they're saying, it's sort of like, even if you read the same thing, like the same book, even if I read like the big book or something, or I pick up you know a book that I consult with sometimes and I read it again for the 10th time, like, yeah, you get something different, something different.

Speaker 1:

But what I think is also important is is it depends on where you are. You were already well, seemingly anyway. I didn't know you, but you sound like you were already kind of a person that was working at a relatively high level, meaning meaning you had some awareness of yourself. You're maybe a little bit older, you didn't have like a lot of jackpots or things that were kind of cramming up your, your life, and so you could receive that information.

Speaker 1:

I think in a way, that was was good for you Like that's why it worked, versus maybe some people like maybe your stepmoms, like that, really were kind of maybe further along that. We know that it's a linear, like a path of addiction. Right Can be, it can be on a lot of steps on that path, right. So, maybe they were like in a further along path, much more like physically dependent, like emotionally, like there was a like a further damage.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely they wouldn't have been able to receive things like that and like emotionally, like there was a like, a further damage. Yeah, absolutely Receive, they wouldn't have been able to receive, um, things like that, and so maybe they needed a more direct approach, like you need to do this like like, kind of like maybe 12 step provides or uh or some other like coaching model or something where it's very, you know, scripted, because yeah, a lot of structure for sure, yeah, yeah, I think that's true.

Speaker 2:

And here's the thing you know, shelby, I wasn't at that place then. Was I in the best place? No, definitely not. I wanted my life to change.

Speaker 2:

But who's to say that if I wouldn't have kept on this path, that I wouldn't have gotten there? You know, even though I was pretty stubborn, I'm like I'm never going to get that bad At some point, you, you, there's, there's a tipping point. You never know what's going to happen, especially with a substance that is designed for you to get that bad, Like that's. That is what it's designed for. You know it's. It's kind of.

Speaker 2:

It's difficult to say, but what I can say is that, without a doubt, that my life is better and more miraculous and amazing, wonderful things have happened with alcohol out of the picture, even though I really feared that I would be a loser and a social outcast and not able to have fun and all of those things that we all think of. My life is just infinitely better in every single way, and I think that's the, that's the big end thing is, yeah, it was hard and, you know, this path worked for me and the result is a better life, and I think that's all any of us can hope for. So, when it comes to the work.

Speaker 1:

You know that's what you always quote. You know the work, what I call emotional sobriety you might use that term, or maybe you don't and when it comes to that like and to me, that's where we all kind of get once it's been a little bit of time. You know that one to five year range where you really start to open up and you're like, oh wow, like I feel really good, I'm ready for more, I want to start this business, or I want to do this, or I want to have a baby, or whatever.

Speaker 1:

Whatever it is, as that's starting to like kind of bubble up to the surface, what are the things that you really, um, what are the steps, tips, tools, tricks that you kind of put in front of people, that you use yourself and then you put in front of people as far as, like, what, how do we do this? Like?

Speaker 2:

yeah.

Speaker 1:

How do you do the?

Speaker 2:

work. Yeah, you know, how I kind of like to envision it is that when we're drinking, we are like floating in a pool of water with a life vest on, so it feels like we're swimming, but we're not diving below the surface and we're actually not learning the skill of floating, because we have this like device that's keeping us safe you know quote, unquote safe and really all it's doing is causing us to skim the surface. And if we were to float out into the deep end and take that life jacket off, we'd struggle for a second right, because it's scary and the water's deep and how the heck do you swim without this thing helping you? And so there's this like needing to relearn new skills that we maybe could have learned when we were kids, but most of us didn't, because most of us, you know, learned to swim the entire time with a life jacket. We were not taught emotional regulation. We weren't taught to embrace our emotions. We weren't taught to feel or communicate about our emotions, or that they were okay even taught to feel or communicate about our emotions, or that they were okay even.

Speaker 2:

And so now we have to go back and do some work and kind of like learn how to dog paddle, learn how to float, learn how to swim, and for me, that is just, you know, understanding, first of all, what are the basic emotions and what are the emotions, like the secondary and tertiary emotions underneath of them, that we're feeling and experiencing, and how can we just learn to communicate about them with ourselves?

Speaker 2:

You know, the ultimate level is to be able to share that with others and communicate with others. But could we just, when we're experiencing something that feels overwhelming or insurmountable or even impermissible, be with that for a moment and say, okay, here's what this emotion is, I'm going to name it, I'm going to say I'm feeling it out of, you know, 10 out of 10 on a 10 scale or whatever that is, and maybe just write about it and process it. And for me, my, a lot of my process was centered around journaling and just kind of self communication, because I needed to learn to talk about it with myself first before I could share it with others. And the the act of being in tune with your emotions, naming them, sitting with them, talking about them to yourself and then sharing those with others, is really, you know, I think the process that is is very important for long-term emotional sobriety is to be able to deal with the things that we were trying to control, manipulate or manage with alcohol.

Speaker 1:

Right I? I think what you're describing is becoming willing and developing almost the skill, I guess of being uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah, I always say I feel like multiple times a week. Now you know, most of life is pretty uncomfortable for most people. You know we have situations, you know at work or in the public, or with our kids or our families or our spouse, whatever. You know our family and and it's uncomfortable you know we don't like it.

Speaker 1:

So I think it's really it's so important to be able to learn how to emotionally regulate yourself. But you're right, it's not. These are not. These are the. I guess they're called soft skills. Not these are the. I guess they're called soft skills. I guess they are taught like if you're coming up you're starting to learn them, like in school and different things, because you can't just like lash out at the teacher yeah, yeah, you can't just hit your classmate. I mean you can I guess, but you're gonna get in trouble.

Speaker 1:

So sure you're being kind of taught how to do that, at least in our day, but they're maybe and I think it's somewhat better now people are starting to put language around. Oh, yeah, yeah, like helping people recognize, like wow, it sounds like you're really. You know, you're really angry, right, it looks like you're really mad. Yeah, kind of happening at a younger age, but for many of us, we didn't grow up in systems where that was like a norm?

Speaker 2:

No, not at all, you're told. You know, if you were angry, then it wasn't. Let's talk about it. It's like don't do that, go to your room. And so then anger became bad. But the reality is, anger is an emotion. It's a valid emotion. We just weren't taught how to do it Right, you know yeah.

Speaker 1:

Right and, like I just you know, somebody said recently to me, frankly recently, is that all feelings are true. You know, all of our feelings are true and right to us and I was like, wow, that really that tracks. I was like, okay, they all are because they're ours in that moment. Now our reactions to those are our responses. Whichever we choose to do with that is our responsibility.

Speaker 1:

So if you are angry and you lash out at somebody, then you are responsible for sort of making amends for that or correcting that situation. But the feeling of being mad or sad or happy or or grief or whatever is is they're all valid. And if somebody else isn't experiencing that same feeling around around that same situation, that's okay too, like they don't have to.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think the real gift that I've given myself and that everyone else can experience through that is my emotions used to be so much more volatile and unmanageable and, yeah, there's a lot of uncomfortable situations. Like you said, a lot of life is uncomfortable and awkward or not convenient. But I used to go like way off track when I would start to experience an intense emotion or something was inconvenient and now it's more like a little like deviation and then back to feeling okay and that feels so much better not to have these you know high and low swings that, frankly, I was creating for myself sometimes, but to be able to let hard stuff happen and then still feel mostly kind of in the neutral space, which is just feel so much better.

Speaker 1:

So I love this. So, basically, the this sort of tip is around learning how to be a good emotional regulator and you talked a lot about naming the feeling, which I love. Once we name it, we can kind of put it outside of us. It's not us, it's not yeah. Me, yeah, my identity it's this, it's a feeling, it's just yeah. And then you talked about journaling, which I think is great too.

Speaker 1:

It's a great strategy for kind of recognizing patterns in yourself, for recognizing feelings and when they come up sort of identifying like what, when this happened, then I had this feeling, or then then this thought and then this that helps to um point you in the direction of how to make the changes in that.

Speaker 2:

And so what's?

Speaker 1:

another, what's just like one more thing that you, that you do now or maybe you help your clients with, to become more actualized.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I love to just give a journaling prompt that I love to use. That helps me in those moments because sometimes you get kind of stuck and I hear from a lot of you know, I work with mostly women like I don't know what to journal, I feel silly, it feels immature, I don't know where to get started. And so I like to use this prompt, especially if you're feeling kind of impulsive and maybe it's something, it's a feeling that's causing you to want to drink. But even if it's just like an intense emotion, I always offer the journaling prompt wait, what am I thinking? And using a timer, going by yourself for 20 minutes, because we know that 20 to 30 minutes can help dissipate this sensation, the intensity of an emotion and then just writing at the top of the paper what am I thinking.

Speaker 2:

And you know, let's, let's say you had a fight with your coworker, Tom, and you're just thinking well, tom's a piece of you know what, and that's the thought in your head and it's not mature and you're not proud of it. But guess what? That's the thought you're having. So what am I thinking? And then going? You maybe just download and dump everything Even it feels adolescent and immature about Tom and once you feel kind of complete, they're going into when I think this thought, I feel, and share the emotion with yourself that you feel and let yourself journal about that feeling.

Speaker 2:

So when I, when I think that way, I feel this, and you know, I like to use like a tool like I'm sure you've used the emotion wheel before to help name and explain emotions a little more deeply and again these are going to feel like juvenile things, like really I'm a, you know, I'm 39, I'm a 39 year old woman. I'm using this little wheel to try and explain my emotions and I'm journaling about Tom like he's the town gossip and I'm 13. Like he's the town gossip and I'm 13. Well, yes, that is what I need to do at this moment. So that's what I will do.

Speaker 2:

And it's frustrating to have to kind of do some of these juvenile activities and they don't feel very sophisticated. But let me tell you what you know, shelby, they work. It works to process in whatever way you know works for you. And maybe you try journaling a couple of times and it doesn't really do the trick. But I think it's worth it to give yourself the opportunity to explain and express and get something off your chest to where you're not holding it in your like internal filing system trying to make sense of it, the you know the the worst thing that can happen is that you dump it onto the page and then you're not reeling about it in your head, which I think is a really freeing feeling.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's the worst thing that can happen, right, yeah, and it can happen is is you're not thinking about it as well?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1:

I love having those prompts that W A, I, t is. So what am I thinking? Uh, but similar to an activity that I use the entire first module of my course around this material, eliminating negative thinking patterns, and that one of them is is sort of taking a thought inventory. That's kind of, yeah, similar so they can learn to recognize. You know what are my negative things, what?

Speaker 1:

are my negative thoughts and then like what happens to bring them on. So is it the phone call from the boss? And then immediately you're like, oh um, I did something wrong or I'm always a failure, or is it it the? Is it the? Is it the child that's given you? You know, kind of pushing back? You know what is it that makes you go into that negative thought and then being able to impact that and change that in a much, very subtle way, which then will change your emotions about your feelings and then your behavior. So it's such a positive and productive experience. Truly, it's just that none of us really spend the time to do it. I don't know why we don't do some of these super easy things.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's not as it's not as instant gratification, but I I know you know that it pays off. If you can just, isn't it better to take that 20 minutes to like, sit and process, rather than see about it and try and replay a conversation for two hours Like it's just?

Speaker 1:

So when you do it, when you get really good at this and you start to give yourself those moments, you learn about grace for yourself, like you learn how to extend grace to yourself. And then you also learn that like wow, that like really bad thing happened to me and I didn't like implode yeah, I didn't die, the world didn't stop moving, like I actually this terrible thing and feeling happened and like everything just kind of kept going. Yeah, I was able to go to bed and wake up the next morning and even though it's uncomfortable and I didn't like it and I was sad or I cried.

Speaker 1:

You know I still did. I went to bed and I got up. You know we, just we were able to keep going and the more opportunities you have to do that, the more like resilience you build up. You know exactly.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yeah, every time you tick that box, you, you, you had made like a flex, like you flex the muscle and you're building that muscle and eventually it's going to become kind of close to second nature to do that for yourself. Just take practice.

Speaker 1:

Totally agree with that. Oh my gosh, Amanda. This has been such a great conversation. I know everyone is going to love it, and so where can they find you if they want?

Speaker 2:

to reach out. For sure. I've loved the conversation as well. If this resonated with you, I'm typically hanging out on Instagram. I'm at Amanda Kuda and that's K U D A, or you can visit my website, amandakudacom. I have my book that came out a couple of years ago unbottled potential breakup with alcohol and breakthrough to your best life and I think that that would be a really great resource for anyone who's on this journey as well. Who liked this conversation?

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. I'll make sure I link to those things in the show notes below so that they can all find it. And again, I just thank you so much for your time and I hope our paths cross again so too.

Speaker 2:

Yes, thanks, shelby.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for joining me for this week's episode of Confident Sober Women. If you enjoyed this conversation, hit the subscribe button above so you won't miss any upcoming episodes. And, hey, if you really loved it, leave me a review. You can learn more about the sober freedom inner circle membership at wwwshelbyjohncoachingcom. Forward slash inner circle. See you next time.