Confident Sober Women

From Suicidal to 27 Years Sober: The Brutal Truth About What Really Works in Recovery

• Shelby • Episode 219

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In this episode of the Confident Sober Women Podcast, host Shelby sits down with Emily Sayre Smith, author of "Smartass Memoir of a Mouthy Girl," for an honest conversation about hitting rock bottom and finding redemption through sobriety.

The Breaking Point That Changed Everything

Emily shares the moment that saved her life, sitting on her bedroom floor in West Hollywood at 42, with a gun in her mouth. What happened next was a spiritual awakening that would transform her entire existence: "If I don't kill myself, anything is possible." This realization led her to her first AA meeting.

Why Traditional Recovery Works (Even When You Fight It)

From classical ballerina to gym owner to construction manager to published author, Emily's career path has been anything but linear. But it's her 27-year sobriety journey that reveals the real transformation. She discusses:

  • Fighting the concept of powerlessness as a "Type A, go-getter"
  • Finding God in rooms full of other recovering addicts
  • The slow burn of emotional growth and why "peeling the onion" takes decades
  • Surviving major life upheavals sober, including divorce after 22 years

The Truth About Long-Term Sobriety

This isn't your typical "pink cloud" recovery story. Emily and Shelby dive deep into the reality that recovery work never truly ends. Even with decades of sobriety, life can still knock you down - but the tools you develop make all the difference.

Key takeaways from this episode:

  • Why hitting your personal "bottom" is often necessary for lasting change
  • How community and connection become lifelines in recovery
  • The importance of continuing to tell your truth
  • Why self-love isn't just a buzzword, it's the foundation of healthy relationships

Emily's recent divorce led to another suicidal crisis, but this time she chose treatment over alcohol. Her journey to self-discovery at 65 offers hope for anyone struggling with codependency and the need for external validation.

Resources Mentioned

Struggling with racing thoughts, anxiety, or feeling stuck in unhealthy patterns? Neurofeedback therapy can help rewire your brain for emotional regulation and mental clarity. Visit my website to learn mo

Support the show

Support the show

Oh, and by the way, if you didn’t know, my remote Neurofeedback Therapy program is up and running. Learn more here!

If you aren't part of the Confident Sober Women Facebook group, it's a great place to be. There are over a thousand other sober women there building lives they don't want to escape from. Come on over and join us.

And if you haven't read my memoir, grab a copy today and maybe a second one for a friend. There is so much hope in recovery, and I shared my story so raw and vulnerable so that others would know they aren't alone and that there is a way to live well, manage relationships, parent your kids, and have a healthy body, all while staying sober. Grab a copy of Recovering in Recovery: The Life-Changing Joy of Sobriety wherever books are sold.

Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to the Confident Sober Women podcast. I'm your guide, shelby John. I'm the mother of three, wife to one and sober since July 1st 2002. As sober women, we have something huge in common, and when we share our lives and our stories with each other, we feel that sense of belonging and connection. So we know we are no longer alone. In this podcast you will hear real life talk about building confidence and transforming your life beyond recovery. So come on, let's talk recovery. So come on, let's talk. Hey, it's me, shelby.

Speaker 1:

Have you ever wondered what's really happening in your brain during recovery? Are you ready to take control of your anxiety, sleep better and finally feel focused and confident? I want to introduce you to a game changer that's transforming women's recovery remote neurofeedback therapy. I want you to a game changer that's transforming women's recovery Remote neurofeedback therapy. I want you to think of this as a personal trainer for your brain. It's helping you build new neuropathways right from the comfort of your own home. So if you're dealing with anxiety that just won't quit, if you have ADHD that's making life chaotic or sleep issues that leave you exhausted, neurofeedback could be your missing piece. It's science-backed brain training that works with your natural healing process, helping you regulate emotions and build lasting confidence. The best part is, you don't need to add another appointment to your busy schedule. My remote neurofeedback program brings professional guidance and support right to your living room. Do you want to learn more about neurofeedback therapy?

Speaker 1:

You can go to my website wwwshelbyjohncom to download my free guide. Is Neurofeedback Right for you? Together, we'll create the calm, confident future you that you deserve. That's wwwshelbyjohncom. Take the first step towards training your brain for lasting change. Well, hey there, emily, thank you so much for joining me today for the Confident Sober Women podcast. I'm so excited to have you here and share you with my audience. So I'm going to turn the mic over to you and let you share a little bit more about your story, and then we're going to chat.

Speaker 2:

Thank you very much for having me, shelby. I appreciate it. So you know, my, my story is not unlike most people's stories who, you know, tried to get sober or do get sober. It's like I. I grew up in a, you know, a very lovely family. You know, my father was an Episcopal priest. My mother was, um, one of the smartest people I ever met, but they were both deeply troubled human beings and um, so life at home was um kind of iffy. I uh, I equate it to the movie ordinary people, which was, you know, it's nice. It's nice, you know, um nice people, but the undercurrents is dark, um, anyhow. So suffice it to say I ran away away into the world of dance and ballet, and that pretty much probably saved my life until it didn't work anymore.

Speaker 2:

And you know, I was sitting on my bedroom floor in my duplex apartment in West Hollywood with a gun in my mouth. I was 42 years old and I was, you know, I was miserable. I had things, I had a good job, I had a lovely apartment, I had a nice car, and I was miserable, absolutely miserable. And you know, I pondered that moment, with the gun in my mouth, of like, okay, click, I'm dead. It won't be pretty. There will be guts all over the walls, et cetera. They'll find me, probably in a couple of days. That won't be pretty, there'll be guts all over the walls, etc. Um, they'll find me, and probably in a couple of days. That won't be pretty. It might smell bad my poor sisters, all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2:

And then I had what I think was my first spiritual experience, which was but if I don't kill myself, but if I don't kill myself, anything is possible. I can't make a mistake, because if I kill myself I'm dead and it's all over. If I don't, how can anything I do be worse than that? So I got up and took my drugs to my next door neighbors and said here I'm an addict, and poured hours for the first AA meeting that I knew of, which was literally around the corner. And basically that's what really. I mean I had been around AA a little bit before. I mean I had been around AA a little bit before. I mean I had known. For you know, I remember the minute I spent like 16 years in New York City when I was dancing and pursuing that dance career, and I have a visceral memory of standing in my apartment while I was cleaning house and going, oh, I'm a drug addict, addict.

Speaker 2:

It took me many years to admit that I was also an alcoholic, because I had a you know, the old man trench coat vision of that and I was, you know, just didn't relate to it Anyhow. So, you know, I had, I had tried to go to AA at one point, but that was really about a girl. I had tried to go to AA at one point, but that was really about a girl. I'm gay and you know I wasn't really ready to get sober, but she was sober and you know anyhow. So, but I wasn't, I wasn't ready.

Speaker 2:

So I think I've also been Rather suicidal a lot of my life. Life because and I think that fits in with because I couldn't stand the way I felt and I think this is very much a common feeling and alcoholics and addicts is, and that's why we drink and use, is because we can't stand the way we feel, and which is why drugs and alcohol are such a relief, um, because they change the way you feel immediately. Um, so, anyhow, that started my, my path to a sobriety that that really worked. I'm sorry, were you going to ask me a question? No, ok. So, and you know I think it was also the bottom that I needed because I'm too arrogant and willful and you know I'm a type a. You know I can do that. Go get them self-made girl. And um, you know the idea.

Speaker 2:

You know you go sit down in an a-a meeting and you look up at the wall and you see the word powerless and it's like I'm not, fucking sorry, I tend to swear, I'll try not to. Um, I'm not powerless, I'm not, and you know. And then there's god, and you know my daddy was an episcopal priest. I grew up in church. Um, I love the art, the architecture, the music, all of that, but I didn't see a lot of God there, especially when my father was beating my mother up and you know she was fending him off with a knitting needle. So, but because I had gone from here to an AA meeting, it's kind of like you know people talk about it's the last house on the block. You know I had nowhere else to go. You know it was that or kill myself. So I sat there and it's also why I have a real opinion about it's important. You know that there's coffee and a cookie Because you know I went to a meeting, meeting.

Speaker 2:

I got a cup of coffee and a cookie and I could stand there with my coffee and my cookie and feel like I had something to do and how to fit in anyhow. So, um, so you know, I made friends, I got people were nice to me and I listened to the stories. God, I love the stories. I love, you know, I love listening to alcoholics talk because I relate to other alcoholics and the you know, the car crashes and the you know some people have crazy stories of you know guns and ending up in trees and other countries and things like that. That's not exactly me, but I love the stories. So I just I sat and I listened and I listened to other people talk and and I learned, but it was very slow for me, very slow for me. I get the feeling that you don't want me to base this too much around just AA.

Speaker 1:

Right, well, that's the way you got sober. So, yeah, I think that's really powerful and important, and everybody, um, you know, like I got sober just a little bit after you my anniversary was actually a couple of weeks ago and so I, when I got sober in 2002, there was nothing else except for rehab and AI and 12 step. That's all we had, you know. Now we have modern day recovery with Quitlet and online spaces and programs and all kinds of stuff. We have a lot, a wealth of materials at our fingertips that we just did not have like when I got sober. So, similar to you, I got sober in AA because that's that's what we had. Today there's a lot of other ways to do it, and so a lot of times, what I say around here is I don't necessarily care how you got sober if it works for you, you know, um, it's just that you know, living that alcohol-free life and kind of restoring yourself to sanity was the result. So, um, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2:

So, um, you know what, what I've learned in Alcoholicsics, anonymous, what I've learned through sobriety is, um, you know, aha uses the structure of the steps right. And you know, powerless and you know, find a higher power. And you know, look at all your past mistakes and look at your character and clean, clean it up and then help others. That's my quick like one through 12. And you know, I had a sponsor when I was 10 years sober who basically said you know, the steps are about cleaning out, cleaning out what's between you and God and and I would paraphrase that a little bit at, the steps, I think, are about cleaning out what's between you and other people, you and humanity. Um, because we do, we carry around a lot of old bad behavior and shame and things that we can, um, that we are ashamed of and that we used to beat ourselves up with. And so, you know, I think I spent the first 10 years trying to clean up that and how I walked through the world to having more of a spiritual life and understanding that that was sort of the, the be-all and end-all to it. It's, um, there's a book called as bill sees it, and there's a piece in there about that's called the keystone of the arch, and the keystone of the arch is that sort of um parallelogram. Well, it's not a parallel grab. Ok, my geometry is bad that stone in the middle where the whole arch comes up and rests on that stone and you have to keep the framing in there until that last piece is set in and then the rest of the pieces will bear on that center piece and you can take the framing away. So that's what working the steps has done for me. You know, and it's like when I work with other people, you know I talk about going through the steps and that each one of them is like putting a tool in your toolbox. You know, it's like I'm powerless over alcohol. My life has become unmanageable. It's like I am powerless over alcohol. My life has become unmanageable. It's like I am not a powerless girl, I am a kick-ass type A. Show me the goal and I will get it done. Aries, you know, go get her. But the truth is there is an element of powerlessness that is really quite useful, especially to the alcoholic. It's like you are power. You're powerless over everything. You're powerless over what other people do and say you're powerless over traffic. You're powerless over. You know what's available in the grocery store. You're you know you're powerless over whether the Amazon man shows up or not. You know it's like you are powerless over absolutely everything. So it's basically how you, you know, react and respond and swing with the punches that life can bring right.

Speaker 2:

I came to find a spiritual life, a higher power, whatever you want to call it, in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. You know, growing up in church, it's like the whole dude on the cloud and Jesus on the cross and all of that. It's like it just didn't hit pay dirt with me. But, sitting in a room full of other people like myself, where everyone had a common goal and everyone's talking and sharing their sort of innermost thoughts and feelings and secrets, um, there was a camaraderie, a communion, if you will. You know that happens there and it's something I felt.

Speaker 2:

I powerfully, powerfully felt, um, you know it's, it's the, it's the connection I think that we lack sometimes as alcoholics, and um, that's what I lacked and that's what's been, um, very much key to me. Um, because you know I hate to say this but it's true, it's like I hated myself. I really, you know, I had done things, I had a lot of achievements in my life, but I don't think I really liked myself. Um, you know, I don't. You know, I was very defensive and very hostile and very, um and aa sort of helped temper me and make me part of, just make me part of the group. I didn't have to be in charge, I didn't have to to, you know, run the show. Um yeah, it gave me community, which I think is a lot of what's lacking in the world these days.

Speaker 1:

Um, yeah, so thank you so much for sharing all that. I really appreciate that, and um, so vulnerably. You know that's really how all of this works is when we learn how to recover out loud we really do become helpful and create opportunities for other people who are still out there seeking ways to rebuild their sanity through sobriety. So I really appreciate that and it's a powerful story. I really appreciate the desperation that you shared that story about kind of holding the gun and being suicidal. I mean that just speaks, I think, to what all of us can relate to.

Speaker 1:

Whether you've sat in a million AA meetings or not, or you've been around, I'm pretty sure you can probably relate to that level of desperation where you're just, you know, at the end and I hear people say a lot you know I didn't want to die, but I didn't want to live either, and so like that's I think that jumping off place for most of us and what gets us to the places where hopefully we can, we can learn to get sober. So that I think relating to that feeling is it's always really powerful for me when I hear that part of people's stories. You know cause I definitely um, I was a depressive drunk as well two suicide attempts and it's definitely a horrible thought and feeling to now being 20, whatever years out now and to think back that that's the way I was thinking about myself or feeling is. It's so sad, it just hurts my heart. You know, my life is like a million times different, probably like yours. You know I have three young adult children.

Speaker 2:

But I really needed that. That's what I say about a bottom. I really needed that to be teachable to be desperate enough to be willing to say, okay, I know nothing. I don't, I don't know anything, everything I'm doing doesn't work, so I'll just sit here, be quiet, try to learn and try to do it a different way. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's what it takes. So most of the time when I talk to people, um, and my experience working with lots of other um individuals who have done, done what we have done you know they they share a common experience around, kind of after we get and stay sober for a while, for like a year or more, and then that like one to five year range, there's really this kind of awakening that starts to happen. You know, we, the fog is like really lifted, there's clarity. You know, obviously we're as sober as we're ever going to get at that time.

Speaker 1:

But we're also starting to see like, wow, I have opportunities now that weren't available to me when I was in active addiction, or maybe I would like to, you know, start a business or have a baby or leave my partner or you know whatever, start a drawing class, I don't know. You know there's things that just come up. We start to realize like, oh okay, I can do certain things and I'm just, I was just curious if you can relate to that, Like if you had that and kind of what that was like for you.

Speaker 2:

You know, I think in in I had already done so much, you know, in terms of the achievement level. It's like I've been a classical ballerina. You know I'd had a career there. Then I went into the fitness industry. I owned a gym in New York for 12 years. You know that was a big deal. Then I worked for another company in the fitness industry and they transferred me to Los Angeles to open their, their you know sort of flagship on the West coast. Then I ditched all of that and went into the construction industry.

Speaker 2:

I know, but classical ballerina to construction manager, it's an odd path but it makes sense if you hear the whole story. You know, and and so I think you know I'd always been able to do things. But it was really the interpersonal skills that were the growing part for me and the emotional regulation that was the growing part for me. And the emotional regulation that was the growing part for me. The I mean hell. I just I just wrote a book.

Speaker 2:

You know it's like I've been a dancer, a gym owner, a construction manager and now I'm an author. Know, it's like, and sobriety has brought me to this place of and I don't think with ego, but just with put one foot in front of the other and um, try, you know, see if you can do it. Um, go to friends, get help. What do you think here? Read my book, do you hate it? So I don't know that I've answered your question, but and also my sobriety was slow. You know, I'm 27 years sober, and it's taken a village and Growing for me has been slow, at least the important parts, the emotional parts.

Speaker 1:

When you said that the first time, I really related to that too, because I feel like that was my story too. I was not somebody who came to the rooms thinking like, oh, I think I should get sober or I have a problem with alcohol. That's not my story. I was definitely like, not at all interested in doing that or thought that any of that was the. I knew I was crazy and that I had a lot of problems, but I didn't think alcohol had anything to do with it, and so personally just didn't think that that was the solution.

Speaker 1:

But that's where I landed and I followed directions because I was too scared not to and I was on the verge of losing a whole bunch of stuff, and so I kind of was in that space for a long time. I remember sitting in those rooms thinking like, oh, I don't belong here. This is ridiculous. I was in rehab and I never even unpacked my bag, cause I was like, oh, they're going to come pick me up. I don't know that. You know this is they made a mistake, but that's not usually what happens when people end up in rehab, like, usually normal drinkers don't end up in rehab. So that's not what happened for me, and so, for like 18 months, though, I was like still doing that, I was still like I did the things because I was too scared not to, but I was like I don't really know. This is my story.

Speaker 2:

You know, you were still seeing the differences.

Speaker 1:

I was like I don't, my story is really that bad. I didn't really have all that stuff going on, and so it was a very slow burn for me too. And I only bring that up and I don't mean to take up your time because I want to hear more from you but sometimes I share, like I remember sharing at my so I got sober and then six months later I got pregnant and I had three kids in four years. So it was like a very, very chaotic experience. It was one that I chose. I loved it, I was like very exciting, but then I had to do things kind of backwards because by year four I was like having like a sober bottom, you know, cause I really I'd done the work but I hadn't done all the. You know I had to restart.

Speaker 1:

So by year 10, I was like in the midst of this big, huge life with all of the stuff and like I remember celebrating at my anniversary and I was really pissed off, like I was mad because I felt like I should have been further along. Why am I still having to do this crap? It's been 10 years. This is ridiculous and I like that's how I was talking, you know, and I think that I think about that so often and how hilarious it is, cause I'm just like what is wrong with you? But like I mean, I was grateful for my life. I knew that I had a blessing, I knew all of that, but I felt like I should have arrived more, you know, I don't know, I felt like it should have just been easier or I could have handled things better. I don't know what I thought, but it clearly wasn't well or all the way. But it was just a reminder of me of, like, how slow things are those ten years. Sober right, I'm still cleaning, they call it feeling the onion yeah, and.

Speaker 2:

I think it's such a good analogy because you know it's layers on layers on layers. I mean, you know, when I was, when I was a year sober, you know it's like I started to date we very quickly, you know, got, you know, serious and moved in together. You know, within six months, we bought a house together, you know, renovated that house. Three years later, sold it, bought another one, renovated that house. I changed careers into the construction industry. You know it's like, um, you know I had this. I went from being a year sober to having this huge life right. And you know, the second house was a house in the Hollywood Hills. And you know I'm working in construction management and you know, with the company car and the six figure salary and all of that stuff company car and the six-figure salary and all of that stuff and um, and yet, at 10 years and people talk about this, it's like at 10 years, oh, this is, this is the good part um, you know I got, I got fired from my big job and they took away my phone and my company car and my laptop and everything and sent me home with a banker's box, you know, and fired into the Great Recession of 2018. And you know, I called my sponsor and, you know, told him my sad story and he said go to a meeting. And I literally took the phone and shoved it against my butt and screamed fuck you. You know it's like what does that have to do with what just happened to me? It had everything to do with what just happened to me, because I needed to go back and really focus on my sobriety and and me growing as a person, rather than focusing on all of the outside things of you know, the job and the house and and the relationship and and all of those things. Um, I had to set my priority and my priority really was, you know, first and foremost, to stay sober and work on that and my sober life and my spiritual life. So, um, yeah, there's, there's a lot that onion still peels, you know, and and I'll the unless you want me to be quiet the the tail end of that is after 22 years, at the end of the pandemic, she said I want a divorce, bye, see you later.

Speaker 2:

And I had. I mean, I was stunned from out of nowhere, right, and what's interesting was I didn't think about drinking. All I could think about was killing myself because, once again. I needed to make those feelings stop. I couldn't stand the way I felt and you know I was sober long enough that it kind of boggles me that I didn't think about drinking but I 51, 50 myself. I put myself in the nuthouse Because I needed to. I needed to look at that and how I had gotten there, and also I needed to go and get some outside help because you know a lot of us do need outside help to look at, you know, causes and conditions and the underlying issues.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, a million percent. I mean that then that's something that I talk about constantly, like here on the on the show. And then also I'm a mental health therapist. I work with people, you know, kind of every day, um, and mostly people who are in recovery or around recovery, because you really can't get, you can't get away from addiction, like everybody has something.

Speaker 1:

So many of the people that I work with are, you know, either were raised by one or are living with one or are raising one, um, and so that's something that we talk about quite a bit is just, we don't ever really arrive, you know, like the work never, the growth in the work never really ends, and I'm really grateful for that. Today, like today, I can really see like, oh wow, I'm super grateful for that Cause I don't want to just like be stunted ever. But you know there are periods of time that come up when we are just, you know, hit and punched in the face with life. That's really, really painful and I mean I went through that during the pandemic. We had three teenagers we had who were in total, one of which was in total crisis than the second one. I mean we were, it was, we lived in crisis for like four years, sustained trauma, and it was a very, very difficult time.

Speaker 1:

I mean, I talk about it a lot Like we, we had to make some decisions that I just were some of the hardest things I've ever done in my whole life and and it doesn't it doesn't make any of that stuff easier, but sobriety certainly does make things easier. You know, it's a lot easier to show up and do those kinds of things when you aren't under the influence of drugs and alcohol or whatever else you might be using to numb out, and I just think that that you know. It's wonderful to be at this place now where I know for certain 100 million percent that like this is the easier, softer way Absolutely Doesn't mean that like we're not going to look for easier ways sometimes Like of course we are. That's the human experience is to look for the way out, you know, and my natural way is to look for a way out to escape.

Speaker 2:

It made me dig deeper. You know it's like this, this you know this was absolutely a crisis in my life of you know, this was absolutely a crisis in my life of, you know, getting divorced. And you know, it made me dig deeper. It made me go to therapy and finally find a therapist who, you know, wasn't that I couldn't fascinate and who was no bullshit, and you know, and then I was like, oh, I'm drawn to crazy people because that's what I grew up with. It feels like home.

Speaker 2:

And then this, this led me to writing this book, which was an absolute accident. I literally was looking for something to do rather than clean house, and I started, you know, because I'm Irish, I'm a big storyteller. And I started, you know, because I'm a I'm Irish, I'm a big storyteller. So, but really I wrote it because I needed to understand. You know, how did I get here? So I I kind of wrote it all, wrote it all down, and in the midst of writing it all down, I was telling all those stories that I've been telling for years. But I needed to, I needed to understand it, who, who I was and how I was, and that's turned into me publishing a book. So you know, you don't know where life is going to take you, and it's an absolute adventure, you know, and none of this would have happened without me getting and being sober and being willing to look at these things and wanting to look at these things.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, totally agree with that.

Speaker 1:

And and I do think that age is a wonderful thing in this way too, like as we age my experience anyway, and many of my, my peers I know we, we are more wise, you know we are different, you know we have more life experiences, we have more of those opportunities to experience the horribleness of life under our belt right.

Speaker 1:

So we've kind of built that perseverance muscle over a long period of time versus, like you know, my 20 year old kids who are just kind of at the beginning of that, not that they haven't had their own pain, but they haven't had as much, so they don't have as much experience to know that like, oh wow, I actually can handle things that are really hard. And oh, by the way, I'm also not going to die or implode or any of that if my feelings are hurt, you know, or if I have experiencing discomfort, because, by the way, most of life is pretty uncomfortable. And so I know, now almost tomorrow's my birthday, actually 50, I'll be 50. And, like now I know, like I don't, I'm really pretty unbothered by most things in life, because that's the level of peace and contentment I have today, because most things won't compare at all to some of the level of pain I've had you know, most things will not even come close, and so that's my gauge.

Speaker 1:

I'm sure you probably feel the same, like. So unless and until something else hits the top of those things that have been the very worst things in my life, they just like really aren't that important.

Speaker 2:

And one of the things I've also learned is that you know, everything's always worked out, even during my, you know, drunken, debauched days. It's like I've always been taking I mean, I did the work Right, I showed up at the shitty waitressing jobs and stuff like that but it's like I've always been taken care of, Things have always worked out and it's it's very. I don't live in fear anymore and it's it's very I don't live in fear anymore. I live with an enormous amount of faith, even in the crazy world we live in now, where, you know, it feels like everything's going to hell in a handbasket. I'm alluding to politics, without trying to talk about politics, but it's like you know it, it doesn't scare me, it's it's you know right, it's going to work out, I will, and plus, I'm ancient, so it's like I don't care what anybody thinks of me, you know so and those are the blessings that I'm referring to.

Speaker 1:

I mean, like I feel like we just get to be completely different and really content in our own skin. You know, at this age I just feel like wow, like I say all the time and I remember saying, even when I was a little younger and earlier sobriety, when I was thinking, like man, I wish I could give all of this to like my kids, like I want my girls to never have to like have all of those years of like worrying about what everybody thinks and like comparing, but like you can't like take it away from them. But I wish I could you know, because knowing what we know now, it's like wow, you get to that other part and you're just, you know you do have a shift in priorities and a shift in focus and and really the ability to be able to, to, to discern at any given moment, like you know, how important is this? What is my experience with this from the past? Like how do I know you know how to handle this? I mean, like we can, we have skills today, you know, and then we can also always go back to basics.

Speaker 1:

I've had the pleasure, I say, but it's also been very, very painful in some ways professionally working with two people who are in recovery, one for about a year probably now and very just, chronic relapse or constant, constant, constant, constant. I mean like a little bit older than me, my age, kids, similar ages, and just you know, destroyed his life, you know still at his family, kind of somehow. But just watching this man like constantly not get, it has been just so, I don't know, one of my most big, one of my biggest challenges as a therapist, right, because I know what I know, obviously he knows I'm in recovery. I self-disclose that all the time we talk about that, but like I just kind of want to be like dude, what are you doing? But I also know that like nothing I do, I can't make anybody do anything or not do anything, and so I mean so the pain of just kind of watching him and waiting until it was time, and I think we might, we might be there, which is very interesting.

Speaker 1:

And so now it's been a few months, like a few months, and we were talking, last week I guess, about a situation and he presented the situation and he was like, okay, this is what's happening. And he's like, oh, it's the first time I've had like real cravings, like I was really like I was feeling, I was like I was getting ready to get in the car, you know, and I was like okay, so I mean that's normal. And so then I said well, what did you do? And so he's telling me. He's like oh, you know, I I did, I started focusing on my breathing. I, you know, did. He gave me like four or five things and I said, oh, um, they were great, they were great things.

Speaker 1:

And I said, well, well, did you call your sponsor? And he's like, well, I did, I finally like he finally did you know? But then he didn't like share all of the things. Like he just called like a normal, like I'm calling you normally, oh yeah, cool. Like, tell me about that. Like, why didn't? Why didn't you feel like it was appropriate, you know, and it was. It was very interesting to talk about that. So we talked that out and like, and I basically said, you know like, hey, like, why don't we this is all great, like such great stuff, super good tools. But like, why don't we move that situation, that that program up to the top? Like the next time when something's going on and you're having that, like, let's move your program first. Know, like, how about we just pick up that phone first? You know like, wouldn't that be like so much more amazing?

Speaker 2:

because then you're like on the phone with somebody and I'm not saying you gotta say all the things, but you're talking it out and oh no, suddenly now you feel better say oh, you know, when I was first around alcoholics anonymous, I said you know, I don't know why aa works, but it has something to do with the chemical reaction between my ass and a metal chair, because I don't want to go. And then I go there right, and I walk out and I feel better.

Speaker 1:

Right, I tell you.

Speaker 2:

You know it's like, and it's also why I like to say time doesn't matter, you know. Know, I don't care if you're 40 years sober. You, I've seen a lot of people with a lot of time that are assholes and jerks or whatever. But what time has given me was it's like when this thing happened and I got out of the nut house and I went to a meeting. I just, you know, it's like I don't about you, but I am fighting for my life. I am fighting for my little alcoholic life because at my baseline I will do drugs and get drunk and that's my favorite way to deal with stuff. Not anymore, really. But what I do now is I go to a meeting or if I'm talking to somebody, I tell them the truth. I throw my guts on the floor, you know, and it's like here I, you know, because I was 23 years sober at the time. I'm like here, I'm 23 years sober and I just institutionalized myself because you know my wife doesn't love me anymore, boo. But you know, because, because I think that's that's what it's all about. It's all it's like.

Speaker 2:

Why go to therapy if you're not going to tell your therapist all the truth? It's like you don't hear it. They don't hear it. How are they supposed to help you? So you know, I love, I love doing this. It's like what's the great Oscar Wilde quote Be yourself. Everybody else is already taken. It's like I'm going to be me. I'm going to be Emily and throw my guts on the floor, tell you the truth, and we're as sick as our secrets and all of that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I agree. I always say all the time therapy only works if you the truth. And we're as sick as our secrets and all of that. Yeah, I agree, I always say all the time, like you know, therapy only works if you're honest. And I told a lot of lies to a lot of therapists before I got here and so when I landed in the hospital, my husband called that therapist and said my wife just tried to kill herself. I think she was like, like what? Because she didn't know the whole truth, which is such a shame.

Speaker 1:

But it is what we do, you know. What we think is, you know, going to keep us well or whatever. You know, I had issues with trying with being well, because I felt being well meant I was going to be fat, you know. And so, like, I have a lot of that kind of stuff to work through and that's why we layer it on right, we can do AA or some other recovery program of your choice, and then you can start reading Quitlet, you can start doing meditation and yoga and workout and nutrition and therapy and like, start layering on all of the other amazing tools that we have in this life that can help us be well. You know, there isn't just one way.

Speaker 1:

There isn't just one way. The way is whatever's going to make you um. Well, you know um, and you're so right. You know there's a lot of people. My first sponsor told me to carry a big book around with me all the time. It keeps the crazies away, because there was a lot of people in aa um who come to a a lot but are not well, um and well, think about where you are.

Speaker 2:

This is not, aren't we fabulous? Anonymous. This is alcoholics anonymous. You're in a room full of alcoholics and drug addicts who are, like you know, in varying stages of being, you know, messed up, right. So don't worry about what they're doing, worry about what. What you're doing. You know, tell your truth, share your truth. You know, if somebody says something meaningful to you, listen, internalize, take it in. But you know you can't do it just up here. You know it's not about being able to quote the book, it's about getting into your heart and your guts and your soul, because otherwise it's, it's gonna break down, you're gonna be in that scary place someday and you have no defense against the first drink.

Speaker 1:

So you know, I feel like for me anyway, not about your experience, but it's been a really, really long time since I've thought about taking a drink or a drug, Like I was relieved of that from from very, very early on. Thank God I was relieved of that obsession and compulsion early on. So that is that for a very long time two decades that has not been the center of my problem, Right, and so for me, I've become keenly aware of the fact that I'm not going to take a drink or a drug. I'm just almost certainly not. But there's a whole bunch of other crap that I will probably do that could be hurtful to me or you, and so that is.

Speaker 1:

That is where my priority lies. That is why I do the things. That is why I wake up in the morning and do the same things every single day, and then I go to bed and I do the same things every single day, and then I, you know, I take care of myself and I, you know, I try to live by, you know, a lot of the 10th step and the 12 and 12. I mean, there's just things that I do in my life because I don't want to be an ass, right?

Speaker 2:

Or recognizing that you're trying to change the way you feel. Right, it's like you know, a says hungry, angry, lonely, tired. Right? Am I hungry? Am I pissed off? And I talk to somebody, am I angry? Am I tired? It's like have I done any exercise? Do I need food? Do I just need to? You know, relate to another human being, you know. Do I need to go to yoga class? Do I need to meditate? There's a lot of tools, you know.

Speaker 1:

There sure are.

Speaker 1:

And also, I think one of the greatest things that I've, that I've really learned and kind of been marinating in in a very kind of general way, and specifically sometimes over the last, I would say, five to 10 years, but even more so recently is just, you know, that I like letting go of any kind of concept of reliance on anyone else to make you happy is got to be squash right.

Speaker 1:

So like if I'm constantly thinking like, oh, if you did this, or if, oh, you just did that, or whatever that's going to make me content and peaceful and happy, that's a victim mentality. And so, whether it's like the chaos of the world you alluded to it earlier whether it's this chaos and craziness that we view and we don't agree and blah, blah, blah and you know, everyone's entitled to have their own opinions about things and beliefs about stuff. That's the beautiful thing about being human. We all get to do that. But what we don't get to do is like make it other people's problem or a job to make us feel peaceful and content. And so today the release of that has been, I would say, probably the greatest blessing. It's how I've stayed married for I don't know how many long, long time, many decades, because of a lot of acceptance around that, like I have, no longer.

Speaker 2:

It's been the greatest revelation of my life. In the past I'd say year, yeah, just. And part of that is by not being in a relationship I mean in true lesbian fashion, serial monogamy, from relationship to relationship to relationship. You know looking for love, but. But the problem is, is that you know, it's like, now that I've you know, let myself stay single and focused on me. It's like you know it's like now that I've you know, let myself stay single and focused on me. It's like you know the whole concept of like self love. What the fuck is that? Well, you know what it is. What it is is the key. You know it's like I've discovered me. I'm a very good person, I'm smart, I'm kind, you know. It's like I'm having a love affair with me for the first time in my life.

Speaker 2:

And now I won't be going into. You know, if I meet somebody or get into a relationship, I won't be looking for something from that other person. Right, you know, it's like I have it inside myself. You know, it's like I don't know if I'm saying that very well you are.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think this has been a topic of conversation in my family too, because my girls are 21 and 20 and my son is 17. But they're in college and they don't really date that much because they don't seem super interested but they have a little bit. They don't seem super interested, but they have a little bit. But one of the things I talk to them about a lot and I talk about in my work with women in my room, is we're not looking for the other half, we're not looking for complete me, we're not looking for the other half.

Speaker 1:

It's none of that. We're looking for compliments. We're looking for come alongside, who can we do life with, who aligns mostly with us, that we can tolerate and be relatively happy with that we can have a life with that doesn't have anything to do with completing you.

Speaker 1:

We want them to compliment us. Yes, and there's no need, and I've really said that. I've said that several times, to one in particular, and I've said we're not looking for a project, you know, we're not looking for potential, we're looking for partnership and it's hard to understand what that is.

Speaker 1:

It's hard to know what that is when you're 20. But I feel like at least using that kind of language now might be helpful, because the reality of relationships, as you know, is that it's really actually not that fun most of the time. I mean you, it's, it's sort of love, we love each other, but that's actually not it. It's really just a lot of tolerance and acceptance and, yes, we have fun, yes, there's love, but it's a lot of uncomfortableness. And who can sit with you while your mom is dying at the hospital? You know who's going gonna show up while your kid, you know, is being diagnosed with a terminal illness. I mean, like, can these people do that? Can this person do that? Yes or no? Because that's what life is. It's not all like rainbows and sunshine and like we have a hot sex all the time and it's beautiful, and no, it's actually just not.

Speaker 1:

And I think that illusion has to be squashed. You know this sort of of fantasy tale that I think society created and has allowed to like, I don't know, blow up for years. But I'm here to squash it. I'm just kidding, anyway. Well, listen, it's been great chatting with you. I wish we could keep talking. I'm sure we would have so many more areas to go, but why don't you tell people where they can find you if they want to reach out or get your book? How do you like to connect?

Speaker 2:

Well, let's see, my name is Emily Stairsmith and it's E-M-I-L-Y-S-A-Y-R-E-S-M-I-T-H. I wrote a book. It's called Smartass Memoir of a Mouthy Girl. You can buy it on Amazon or at Barnes and Noble or things like that, and I have an author's page on Facebook and I have a web page, which is really very pathetic because I haven't done the work on it yet. So I think, if you, if you want to find me um Facebook and um smart ass memoir of a mouthy girl is probably they're probably the best ways to find me and get ahold of me.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I'll make sure I link to all that stuff below in the show notes, thank you, thank you again so much for joining me. It's been a super fun conversation, um, and I hope you have a fantastic day.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, thank you for having me. Thank you very much.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for joining me for this week's episode of confident, sober women. If you enjoyed this conversation, hit the subscribe button above so you won't miss any upcoming episodes. And hey, if you really loved it, leave me a review. You can learn more about the Sober Freedom Inner Circle membership at wwwshelbyjohncoachingcom. Forward slash inner circle. See you next time.